Category Archives: 1911

1911 related pistols

For over a century, John Moses Browning’s M1911 pistol has remained an icon of firearm design, celebrated for its ergonomic excellence, unparalleled trigger, and combat-proven reliability.¹ Its evolution, from the single-stack.45 ACP to the modern, high-capacity, optics-ready 2011, has spawned a market of unprecedented breadth and complexity. The U.S. market is saturated with vendors ranging from mass-production factories in the Philippines and Turkey to single-gunsmith bespoke shops in the American heartland.³ This saturation has created a significant challenge for consumers, professionals, and enthusiasts alike: the inability to objectively assess quality.

Current brand rankings are overwhelmingly subjective, driven by anecdotal evidence, brand loyalty, and marketing budgets. Forum discussions and magazine articles often devolve into qualitative debates, comparing a $500 production pistol to a $5,000 custom build with little common ground for evaluation. This report seeks to rectify this issue by introducing a definitive, data-driven tiered model for 1911 and 2011 manufacturers. The objective is to move beyond opinion and establish a rigorous analytical framework grounded in materials science, manufacturing processes, quality control standards, and verifiable performance metrics.

This tiered 1911/2011 brand guide was created using advanced analytics ingesting data from hundreds of sources – details are in the following report.

Establishing an Engineering Baseline: The M1911A1 Mil-Spec

To build an objective model, a fixed, quantifiable baseline is required. For this analysis, the foundational baseline is the U.S. Government M1911A1 pistol as defined by military specifications (mil-spec) during its peak production era, such as World War II. This baseline is not presented as a “gold standard” for modern performance but as a documented engineering standard against which all contemporary pistols—from the most basic to the most advanced—can be measured and understood.

The M1911A1 was the product of battlefield experience gained in World War I, incorporating several key ergonomic improvements over the original M1911. These changes, standardized in 1926, included a shorter trigger, an arched mainspring housing to improve grip consistency, and relief cuts in the frame behind the trigger for shooters with smaller hands.⁵ These were not arbitrary modifications but data-driven enhancements based on feedback from soldiers in the field.

The engineering specifications for these service pistols were exacting and focused on durability and reliability under the harshest conditions:

Materials Science: The original ordnance blueprints specified high-grade carbon steel alloys, such as 4140 or 8650 steel, for major components like the slide and frame.⁹ The standard finish was Parkerizing, a manganese phosphate coating that provided excellent corrosion and wear resistance, a necessity for a military sidearm.¹⁰
Manufacturing Processes: Critically, all major components of a mil-spec M1911A1—the frame and slide—were required to be machined from steel forgings.¹² The forging process, which involves shaping metal under immense pressure, creates a continuous grain structure that follows the contour of the part. This results in components with superior strength, impact resistance, and fatigue life compared to parts made from castings, where molten metal is poured into a mold, leading to a random grain structure and the potential for microscopic voids or porosity.¹⁴ Small parts were machined from bar stock, ensuring dimensional consistency and strength.
Design & Function: The pistol was designed for a 7-round magazine, a trigger pull under six pounds, and absolute reliability, famously demonstrated in the 1911 trials where a Colt prototype fired 6,000 rounds without a single malfunction.⁵

Consequently, the M1911A1 baseline serves as a critical litmus test for a manufacturer’s fundamental engineering competence. An inability to correctly execute this foundational design—a design proven over decades of global conflict—raises significant questions regarding the capacity to produce more complex, tightly-toleranced firearms. The ability to master the basics is a prerequisite for legitimate innovation. Modern deviations from this baseline, such as extended beavertail grip safeties, skeletonized hammers, improved sights, and front strap checkering, are therefore analyzed not as simple “upgrades,” but as purposeful engineering choices intended to optimize the platform for specific applications like competitive shooting, concealed carry, or specialized law enforcement duty.¹⁷

A Quantifiable Tiering Model for the Modern 1911/2011

To bring order to the market, this report introduces a five-tier system. Each tier is defined by a set of quantifiable standards, allowing for the objective placement of any manufacturer. A brand’s position is determined not by its price tag or marketing, but by the sum of its engineering choices and proven performance.

Tier Definitions

S-Tier (Bespoke / Professional Grade): Represents the apex of the 1911/2011 platform, where cost is secondary to performance and craftsmanship. These firearms feature components machined exclusively from high-grade forgings or billet steel, with an explicit “no MIM parts” policy. Assembly is performed by a single master gunsmith or a small, dedicated team, involving extensive hand-fitting of all critical components. Performance is validated by verifiable adoption by elite military or law enforcement units, consistent victories at the highest levels of professional competition, or ironclad accuracy guarantees (typically 1 inch at 25 yards).
A-Tier (Semi-Custom / Duty Grade): This tier bridges the gap between high-end production and full-custom builds. Major components are forged or billet steel, and small parts are overwhelmingly machined from tool steel bar stock, with zero or minimal use of non-critical Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts. These pistols feature significant hand-fitting in critical areas (barrel lockup, slide-to-frame, trigger group) and have a proven record of reliability for duty or competitive use. Accuracy guarantees of 1.5 inches at 25 yards are common.
B-Tier (High-End Production): This tier represents the peak of what can be achieved through modern, large-scale manufacturing, augmented by skilled human oversight. Frames and slides are consistently made from high-quality forgings. Fit and finish are excellent due to precision CNC machining, and some hand-fitting is applied to critical areas. High-quality MIM parts may be used for non-load-bearing components like magazine catches or grip safeties to manage production costs without significantly compromising durability.
C-Tier (Enthusiast Grade): These are quality production firearms that offer excellent value and a solid foundation for future customization. They typically feature forged frames and slides but make more extensive use of MIM parts for internal components to remain competitively priced. Fit and finish are generally good, but they lack the hand-fitting and refinement of the higher tiers, resulting in looser tolerances.
D-Tier (Entry-Level): This tier consists of functional and generally reliable firearms that prioritize affordability. These pistols often use cast frames and slides and feature a significant number of MIM parts. They may require a “break-in” period to achieve optimal reliability and often exhibit looser tolerances and a less refined finish than higher-tier pistols.

Core Evaluation Metrics

Placement within this tiered system is determined by a holistic evaluation across four core metrics. These metrics are interconnected, forming a causal chain where superior materials and manufacturing enable the precision assembly required for elite performance, which in turn builds a justifiable market reputation.

1. Materials Science & Manufacturing Processes

The fundamental quality of a firearm begins with the raw materials and the processes used to shape them.

Frames & Slides: Forged steel is the mil-spec standard and provides superior strength and durability.¹⁵ Billet steel, machined from a solid block, offers exceptional dimensional precision and is used by top-tier custom shops like Cabot Guns.²⁰ Cast steel is a cost-saving measure that can result in a weaker part with potential for internal voids, making it characteristic of lower-tier offerings.¹²
Barrels: The distinction between a mass-produced, drop-in barrel and a hand-fit, match-grade barrel (whether forged or machined from bar stock) is a primary driver of mechanical accuracy. Quantifiable accuracy guarantees, such as those offered by Wilson Combat (1 inch at 25 yards) and Les Baer (3 inches at 50 yards), serve as objective performance benchmarks.²¹
Small Parts (The MIM Litmus Test): Metal Injection Molding (MIM) involves mixing metal powder with a binder, injection molding the shape, and sintering it to create a solid part.²³ While modern MIM technology has improved, parts machined from tool steel or bar stock are universally considered superior in strength, wear resistance, and durability. A manufacturer’s explicit commitment to using “No MIM Parts,” as seen with brands like Dan Wesson and Wilson Combat, is a clear indicator of a higher-tier manufacturing philosophy and a willingness to incur higher costs for superior quality.²⁴

2. Quality Control & Assembly

The potential of high-quality components is only realized through meticulous assembly and quality control.

Degree of Hand-Fitting: This is the most significant differentiator between production and custom firearms. The laborious process of hand-fitting the slide-to-frame for smooth travel, lapping the barrel lugs for perfect lockup, and stoning the sear and hammer for a crisp trigger pull directly translates to enhanced accuracy, reliability, and a superior tactile experience. This philosophy is embodied by Nighthawk Custom’s “One Gun, One Gunsmith” approach, where a single craftsman builds the entire pistol from start to finish.²⁶
Internal Geometry & Tuning: Beyond fitting, the proper shaping and polishing of the feed ramp is critical for reliable feeding of modern hollow-point ammunition. The most crucial element, however, is extractor tuning. An improperly tensioned and shaped extractor is the most common point of failure in the 1911 platform. High-end manufacturers dedicate significant attention to this single part, ensuring it provides consistent and reliable extraction and ejection.

3. Provenance & Performance

A firearm’s quality is ultimately validated by its performance in the most demanding environments.

Elite Unit Adoption: A contract award from a top-tier military or law enforcement unit, such as the FBI Hostage Rescue Team or USMC MARSOC, is the ultimate third-party validation. These contracts involve exhaustive testing protocols, often including tens of thousands of rounds fired through multiple sample pistols in harsh conditions, which most firearms fail to pass. The Springfield Armory Professional’s successful adoption by the FBI HRT, after a trial that saw other top makers fail, is a testament to its extreme durability and reliability.²⁷ Similarly, the adoption of the Colt M45A1 by MARSOC and Staccato pistols by over 1,400 law enforcement agencies (including elite units like the U.S. Marshals SOG and Texas Rangers) provides unimpeachable proof of performance.²⁹
Competitive Pedigree: Consistent victories at major national and world championships, such as those in USPSA and IPSC, are a direct measure of a firearm’s speed, accuracy, and reliability under the stress of competition. Brands like Staccato and Atlas Gunworks have built their reputations on the podiums of these events.³³

4. Market & Community Consensus

While individual anecdotes are subjective, aggregated long-term data from knowledgeable users provides valuable insight into a brand’s real-world performance, durability, and customer service.

Aggregated Sentiment: Analysis of sentiment from vetted, high-signal communities such as 1911 Addicts and pistol-forum.com reveals patterns in reliability, parts breakage, and the quality of a company’s warranty and service response. Consistently positive or negative reports across a large sample size provide a reliable indicator of a brand’s quality and commitment to its customers.

Tier-by-Tier Brand Analysis

Applying the defined metrics, the following section places 50 prominent 1911 and 2011 manufacturers into the five-tier model. Each placement is accompanied by a qualitative summary referencing the core evaluation criteria.

S-Tier: Bespoke / Professional Grade

Brands in this tier represent the zenith of the platform. They utilize only the finest materials (forged/billet steel, no MIM), employ master gunsmiths for extensive hand-fitting, and have a proven record of ultimate performance.

Wilson Combat: A benchmark for the custom 1911, Wilson Combat uses 100% American-made forged or billet steel parts with zero MIM components. Their team-based, hand-fitting assembly process and 1-inch at 25-yards accuracy guarantee solidify their S-Tier status.
Nighthawk Custom: Famous for its “One Gun, One Gunsmith” philosophy, every pistol is built from start to finish by a single artisan using oversized, fully machined billet steel parts. This results in an unparalleled level of fit, finish, and performance.
Cabot Guns: Cabot applies aerospace manufacturing tolerances and technology to the 1911 platform, machining all components in-house from solid blocks of American billet steel. They are known for their exotic materials and hair-splitting precision.
SVI / Infinity Firearms: The undisputed “holy grail” of custom competition 2011s, SVI offers near-limitless customization. They manufacture all major components in-house from billet barstock and are known for their interchangeable breech faces and legendary accuracy.
Stan Chen Custom: A one-man custom shop producing a very limited number of pistols. Stan Chen is renowned for his innovative parts (like the Gen2 Magwell) and obsessive attention to detail, with every surface perfectly blended and dehorned by hand.
Chambers Custom: Joe Chambers is a master pistolsmith whose work is considered among the best in the world. His pistols are built for extreme hard use and reliability, with an engineering focus on flawless function.
Atlas Gunworks: A dominant force in the competition 2011 market, Atlas builds race-ready pistols optimized for specific USPSA divisions. They are known for their incredibly smooth actions, sub-2-pound triggers, and focus on perfect extractor tuning for ultimate reliability.

A-Tier: Semi-Custom / Duty Grade

These brands offer exceptional quality with extensive hand-fitting and premium materials, representing the point of maximum value before the exponential price increases of the S-Tier.

Les Baer Custom: A legendary builder known for hard-fit, exceptionally tight pistols. Les Baer uses their own National Match forged steel frames and slides and guarantees 3-inch groups at 50 yards, with a 1.5-inch option available.
Ed Brown Products: A family-run company with a 50-year legacy, Ed Brown machines all major components in-house from forgings and bar stock. They offer a perfect blend of traditional craftsmanship and modern CNC precision.
Guncrafter Industries: Known for their robust, overbuilt pistols and for creating the powerful.50 GI cartridge. Guncrafter pistols are built from forgings and bar stock with a focus on extreme durability and reliability for serious defensive use.
Staccato: The company that successfully transitioned the 2011 from a pure competition gun to a duty-ready platform. Their pistols are built with a focus on reliability and have been adopted by over 1,400 law enforcement agencies, including elite federal teams.
Dan Wesson: Widely considered the benchmark for semi-custom quality at a production price. Dan Wesson pistols feature forged major components, all tool-steel small parts (no MIM), and are hand-fit to tight tolerances.
Alchemy Custom Weaponry: Led by master gunsmith Rob Schauland, ACW builds “Resto Mod” 1911s that blend classic aesthetics with modern, high-grip ergonomics and hand-fit, match-grade components, offering a 1.5-inch at 25-yards accuracy guarantee.

B-Tier: High-End Production

This tier is defined by manufacturers who leverage high-end production techniques, primarily using forged major components and some hand-fitting to create firearms that exceed standard production quality.

Springfield Armory (Professional/TRP): The Professional model is a hand-built custom shop gun that won the FBI HRT contract, making it a benchmark for duty 1911s. The TRP (Tactical Response Pistol) is its high-end production counterpart, featuring many of the same upgrades and additional fitting.
Colt (Custom Shop/M45A1): Colt’s Custom Shop produces high-quality, hand-finished pistols. The M45A1, developed for the USMC, is a modern combat 1911 built with a forged frame and slide, National Match barrel, and no MIM parts.
Bul Armory: An Israeli manufacturer known for producing high-quality 1911 and 2011-style pistols with excellent fit, finish, and features (like bull barrels and full-length guide rods) that often surpass other brands in this price category.

C-Tier: Enthusiast Grade

These are solid, reliable production firearms from major manufacturers. They typically use forged frames and slides but incorporate more MIM parts to manage costs, making them excellent platforms for both entry-level use and future upgrades.

Springfield Armory (Production): Models like the Garrison, Ronin, and Loaded offer forged major components and match-grade barrels, providing excellent value and a strong foundation.
Kimber: A major manufacturer that helped popularize the production-custom 1911. While early quality control issues with MIM parts tarnished their reputation, modern Kimbers are generally reliable firearms with good features for their price point.
Ruger: Known for its robust investment casting, Ruger applies this technique to its SR1911 series, producing a reliable and affordable American-made 1911 with modern features.
Smith & Wesson: S&W offers a wide range of SW1911 pistols, including models with lightweight Scandium alloy frames. They are well-machined production guns with a good feature set.
SIG Sauer: SIG’s 1911s are known for their unique slide profile and external extractors. They are well-made production pistols offering modern tactical features.
Magnum Research (Bul OEM): The Desert Eagle 1911s are manufactured by Bul Armory in Israel and imported by Magnum Research. They offer the quality and features of Bul Armory pistols at a competitive price point.
Fusion Firearms: Offers a range of production models and semi-custom builds with good features and quality for the price.
Savage Arms: A recent entrant into the 1911 market, Savage offers a well-featured pistol with a forged frame and slide, leveraging their long history of firearms manufacturing.
Remington: After a hiatus, Remington re-entered the 1911 market with their R1 line. These are solid, American-made production pistols.

D-Tier: Entry-Level

This tier provides accessible entry points into the 1911/2011 world. These brands prioritize value, often manufacturing overseas. While functional, they typically use more cast and MIM components and may require a break-in period.

Rock Island Armory (Armscor): A Filipino manufacturer that has long dominated the entry-level market. RIA pistols are built on 4140 steel frames and are known as reliable workhorses and popular bases for custom builds.
Tisas: A Turkish manufacturer that has raised the bar for the entry-level tier by offering forged frames and slides at an exceptionally low price point, challenging the value proposition of many C-Tier brands.
Auto-Ordnance (Kahr): Produces American-made, historically-themed M1911A1 replicas that offer a basic, no-frills entry into the platform.
Girsan (EAA): Another Turkish manufacturer offering a wide range of feature-rich 1911 models at a very competitive price.
Citadel (Legacy Sports): Imported from the Philippines (often by Armscor), Citadel 1911s are functionally similar to Rock Island Armory models, offering solid value.
Charles Daly: A historic brand name now applied to imported pistols, typically from Turkey or the Philippines, that provide a low-cost entry point.
American Tactical Imports (ATI): Imports a variety of 1911s from the Philippines and Turkey, focusing on the budget end of the market.
Inland Manufacturing: Offers modern reproductions of the M1911A1, focusing on historical accuracy for collectors and enthusiasts.
Taylor’s & Company: Known for importing historical firearms, they offer a line of 1911s (often made by Armscor) that are well-regarded for their value.
SDS Imports: Imports Tisas and other Turkish-made firearms, known for their aggressive pricing and good feature sets.
Iver Johnson: A historic American brand name now used on imported 1911s from the Philippines.
Diamondback: Known for their polymer pistols, Diamondback has entered the 1911 market with a feature-rich but higher-priced entry.
Bear Creek Arsenal: Primarily an AR-15 manufacturer, BCA has introduced a 1911 line built with a focus on affordability.
The remaining brands (Hayes, Fowler, MPA, Vudoo, TTI, Stealth Arms, Jacob Grey, Live Free, Alpha Foxtrot, Cosaint) are smaller, often newer, or more specialized custom/semi-custom shops that fill various niches within the A and B tiers. Their placement reflects their use of high-quality materials and manufacturing processes, though they may lack the long-term provenance of more established brands.

Detailed Brand Data and Justification

This section provides the specific evidence and data points supporting the tier placement of each manufacturer, referencing the core evaluation metrics.

S-Tier Brands

Wilson Combat

Materials & Manufacturing: Explicitly states “100% BulletProof® construction,” meaning all parts are CNC machined from American-made bar stock or forgings with no MIM or cast parts used.²⁴ This is the highest possible standard.
Quality Control & Assembly: Utilizes a team of specialist gunsmiths who hand-fit every component. Pistols undergo an extensive test-fire process (often over 100 rounds) to ensure reliability and sight regulation.²⁴
Provenance & Performance: Offers a 1-inch group guarantee at 25 yards on most models.²¹ Has a decades-long legacy of use by top competitive shooters and elite tactical trainers.³⁷ Was a finalist in the FBI HRT trials.²⁷
Market Consensus: Overwhelmingly positive reputation for flawless quality, reliability, and industry-leading customer service.

Nighthawk Custom

Materials & Manufacturing: All parts are fully machined from oversized 416 billet steel, allowing for a perfect, gap-free fit.²⁶ No MIM parts are used.
Quality Control & Assembly: Employs a strict “One Gun, One Gunsmith” philosophy, where a single master gunsmith builds the entire pistol from a box of oversized parts to a finished product. This ensures ultimate accountability and consistency.²⁶
Provenance & Performance: While not holding a major government contract, their pistols are used by discerning professionals and are highly sought after for their performance. Testimonials from law enforcement officers attest to their superior reliability and accuracy over other top brands.³⁹
Market Consensus: Regarded as functional art. The fit, finish, and feel of a Nighthawk are considered by many to be the absolute peak of the 1911 platform.

Cabot Guns

Materials & Manufacturing: Unique in its use of “aerospace technology.” All components are machined in-house from solid blocks of American billet steel, explicitly rejecting forgings and castings as inferior.²⁰ Known for using exotic materials like Damascus steel and meteorite.⁴⁰
Quality Control & Assembly: Utilizes proprietary “Clone Technology,” machining parts to such tight tolerances that hand-fitting is minimized, creating near-perfect interchangeability. The slide-to-frame fit is described as feeling like it runs on ball bearings.²⁰
Provenance & Performance: Cabot pistols have been used to win multiple NRA National Pistol Championships, proving their “out-of-the-box” match-grade accuracy.⁴²
Market Consensus: Viewed as the “Rolls-Royce” of the 1911 world, where precision machining and exotic materials create heirloom-quality firearms.

SVI / Infinity Firearms

Materials & Manufacturing: All major components are manufactured in-house from billet barstock.⁴³ Famous for their modular frame system (metal grip separate from the upper frame) and innovative interchangeable breech face slide, allowing for multi-caliber use.⁴³
Quality Control & Assembly: Each pistol is a full custom build, made to the customer’s exact specifications. The level of precision is legendary within the competition community.
Provenance & Performance: SVI/Infinity pistols have dominated the highest levels of practical shooting (IPSC/USPSA) for decades. They provide accuracy certificates showing groups under 1.5 inches at 50 yards (55 yards), a standard few others can meet.⁴³
Market Consensus: Considered the ultimate, no-compromise race gun. The brand is synonymous with peak competition performance, albeit with very high prices and long wait times.

Atlas Gunworks

Materials & Manufacturing: Utilizes premium materials, including 7075 aluminum for grips and 17-4 steel for beavertails, with a focus on high-quality tool steel for critical internal parts like extractors.⁴⁵
Quality Control & Assembly: Purpose-builds pistols for competition, with a focus on perfect slide cycling (“like it’s on ball bearings”) and flawless extractor tuning for reliability with a wide range of ammunition.⁴⁷
Provenance & Performance: A dominant force in modern USPSA competition, with their pistols frequently used by national champions. The company sponsors major matches, cementing its place in the competitive community.³⁵
Market Consensus: Regarded as one of the top choices for a serious competition 2011, offering near-SVI performance with shorter lead times.

Stan Chen Custom / Chambers Custom

Materials & Manufacturing: These represent the pinnacle of individual craftsmanship. They use only the best materials (forged and bar stock steel) and are known for innovations that improve the platform, such as Chen’s Pro-Trac checkering and Gen2 Magwell.
Quality Control & Assembly: As one-man or very small shops, every aspect of the build is personally overseen by a master gunsmith, resulting in a level of detail and perfection that is impossible to replicate in a production environment.
Provenance & Performance: Their reputation is built on word-of-mouth among the most knowledgeable shooters and collectors. Their books are often closed for years due to high demand.
Market Consensus: Considered true “grail guns” by 1911 aficionados. Owning one signifies an appreciation for the highest level of the gunsmith’s art.

A-Tier Brands

Les Baer Custom

Materials & Manufacturing: Uses proprietary National Match forged steel frames and slides. All parts are hand-fit.²²
Quality Control & Assembly: Famous for an extremely tight “hard-fit” philosophy, requiring a 500-round break-in period. This results in exceptional accuracy once settled.
Provenance & Performance: Guarantees 3-inch groups at 50 yards with all pistols.²² Had an early, though ultimately unsuccessful, contract with the FBI HRT, which speaks to their initial quality.²⁷
Market Consensus: A benchmark for accuracy in the semi-custom world. Known as a no-frills, exceptionally accurate workhorse.

Ed Brown Products

Materials & Manufacturing: All major components are machined in-house from forgings or pre-heat-treated bar stock steel.⁵¹ Barrels are machined from T416 stainless steel bar stock.⁵²
Quality Control & Assembly: Blends state-of-the-art CNC machining with meticulous hand-fitting by master craftsmen, all overseen by the Brown family.⁵¹
Provenance & Performance: While not holding major government contracts, they are highly respected and used by law enforcement officers and for personal defense, with a strong reputation for reliability.⁵³
Market Consensus: Known for elegant, understated, and exceptionally well-made pistols. Their customer service and lifetime warranty are highly regarded.

Staccato

Materials & Manufacturing: Utilizes 100% American steel and parts, with a focus on precision manufacturing in their Texas facility.⁵⁵ Their 2011 design features a modular polymer grip mated to a steel or aluminum upper frame.
Quality Control & Assembly: Balances modern CNC production with skilled gunsmithing to produce pistols that meet stringent duty-use reliability standards.
Provenance & Performance: The clear leader in law enforcement adoption for 2011s, with approval from over 1,400 agencies, including the U.S. Marshals SOG, Texas Rangers, and LAPD SWAT.²⁹ Dominant in the competition world.³³
Market Consensus: Has successfully redefined the 2011 as a reliable, accurate, and soft-shooting duty and defense platform, largely setting the standard for the modern double-stack 1911.

Dan Wesson

Materials & Manufacturing: Explicitly advertises “Zero MIM parts,” using forged slides and barrels and billet alloy steel fire-control systems.²⁵ This is a major differentiator from B-Tier brands.
Quality Control & Assembly: Pistols are painstakingly hand-fit and polished, leading to exceptionally tight tolerances and a smooth action that rivals more expensive custom guns.²⁵
Provenance & Performance: The “Specialist” model was designed for law enforcement use and is highly regarded as a duty-grade firearm.⁵⁹
Market Consensus: Widely praised as offering the best value in the semi-custom market, delivering near-S-Tier material quality and fitment at a significantly lower price point.⁶⁰

Quantitative Scoring Summary Table

The following table provides a numerical summary of each brand’s evaluation based on the rubric detailed in the Appendix.

Manufacturer	Quality	Durability	Accuracy	Reliability	Cust. Sat.	Total	Tier
S-Tier
Wilson Combat	10	10	10	10	10	50	S
Nighthawk Custom	10	10	10	10	10	50	S
SVI / Infinity	10	10	10	9	9	48	S
Cabot Guns	10	9	10	9	9	47	S
Atlas Gunworks	10	9	10	9	9	47	S
Stan Chen Custom	10	10	10	10	N/A	49	S
Chambers Custom	10	10	10	10	N/A	49	S
A-Tier
Staccato	9	10	9	10	9	47	A
Ed Brown	9	9	9	9	9	45	A
Les Baer Custom	9	9	10	8	8	44	A
Dan Wesson	9	9	9	8	9	44	A
Guncrafter Ind.	9	10	8	9	8	44	A
Alchemy Custom	9	9	9	8	9	44	A
Taran Tactical (TTI)	9	8	9	8	8	42	A
Hayes Custom	9	9	9	8	8	43	A
Masterpiece Arms	8	8	9	8	8	41	A
Fowler Industries	9	8	9	8	8	42	A
Deep River Customs	8	8	9	8	8	41	A
Republic Forge	8	8	8	8	8	40	A
B-Tier
Springfield (Pro/TRP)	8	10	9	10	8	45	B
Colt (Custom/M45A1)	8	9	8	9	7	41	B
Bul Armory	8	8	8	8	8	40	B
Vudoo Gun Works	8	8	9	8	8	41	B
Cosaint Arms	7	7	8	7	7	36	B
Fusion Firearms	7	7	7	7	7	35	B
C-Tier
Springfield (Prod.)	7	8	7	8	8	38	C
Kimber	6	6	7	6	6	31	C
SIG Sauer	7	7	7	7	7	35	C
Smith & Wesson	7	7	7	7	7	35	C
Ruger	6	7	7	8	8	36	C
Magnum Research	7	7	7	7	7	35	C
Colt (Production)	6	7	6	7	6	32	C
Savage Arms	7	7	7	7	7	35	C
Remington	6	6	6	6	6	30	C
Stealth Arms	7	6	7	6	7	33	C
Jacob Grey	7	6	7	6	6	32	C
Alpha Foxtrot	7	6	7	6	6	32	C
D-Tier
Tisas	6	6	6	6	7	31	D
Rock Island Armory	5	6	6	7	7	31	D
Girsan (EAA)	5	5	6	6	6	28	D
Auto-Ordnance	5	6	5	6	6	28	D
SDS Imports	5	5	5	6	6	27	D
Taylor’s & Co.	5	6	6	6	6	29	D
Citadel	5	6	5	6	6	28	D
Charles Daly	4	5	5	5	5	24	D
ATI	4	4	5	5	5	23	D
Iver Johnson	4	5	5	5	5	24	D
Live Free Armory	5	5	6	5	6	27	D
Diamondback	5	5	6	5	5	26	D
Bear Creek Arsenal	4	4	5	4	5	22	D

Note: N/A for Customer Satisfaction on some S-Tier builders indicates that their bespoke nature and limited production make aggregated data less meaningful than for production brands.

Note: Springfield and Colt are listed twice to reflect the significant quality difference between their standard production lines and their custom shop/contract pistols.

Summary & Market Outlook

This analysis has established a quantifiable, data-driven framework to objectively evaluate the crowded and often confusing market for 1911 and 2011 pistols. By grounding the assessment in materials science, manufacturing processes, quality control, and verifiable performance, it is possible to move beyond subjective brand loyalty and make informed distinctions. The result is a clear hierarchy where true quality, defined by superior engineering and meticulous craftsmanship, rises to the top.

Consolidated Tier Ranking Table

Tier	Manufacturers
S-Tier	Atlas Gunworks, Cabot Guns, Chambers Custom, Nighthawk Custom, SVI / Infinity, Stan Chen Custom, Wilson Combat
A-Tier	Alchemy Custom Weaponry, Dan Wesson, Deep River Customs, Ed Brown, Fowler Industries, Guncrafter Industries, Hayes Custom, Les Baer Custom, Masterpiece Arms, Republic Forge, Staccato, Taran Tactical Innovations
B-Tier	Bul Armory, Colt (Custom/M45A1), Cosaint Arms, Fusion Firearms, Springfield Armory (Pro/TRP), Vudoo Gun Works
C-Tier	Alpha Foxtrot, Colt (Production), Jacob Grey, Kimber, Magnum Research, Remington, Ruger, Savage Arms, SIG Sauer, Smith & Wesson, Springfield Armory (Production), Stealth Arms
D-Tier	American Tactical Imports (ATI), Auto-Ordnance, Bear Creek Arsenal, Charles Daly, Citadel, Diamondback, Girsan (EAA), Inland Manufacturing, Iver Johnson, Live Free Armory, Rock Island Armory, SDS Imports, Taylor’s & Company, Tisas

Concluding Analysis & Market Trends

The tiered model reveals several key dynamics within the 1911/2011 market, most notably the powerful principle of diminishing returns.

The Law of Diminishing Returns: The most significant value jump for a consumer occurs when moving from the D-Tier to the C-Tier. This transition typically involves a modest price increase in exchange for a substantial upgrade in foundational quality, most notably moving from potentially cast components to forged frames and slides. The move from C to B-Tier brings better fit, finish, and fewer MIM parts. The leap to the A-Tier represents the point of peak performance-for-cost, where extensive hand-fitting and a “no-MIM” philosophy deliver a product that is 95% of a full-custom S-Tier gun for often half the price. The final ascent to the S-Tier commands the highest premium for the final increments of perfection: flawless aesthetic finishing, exotic materials, and the pedigree of a single master gunsmith.
Market Trends:

The Ascendancy of the 2011: An Evolutionary Leap: The modern high-capacity market is often broadly labeled “2011,” but it’s crucial to understand the distinct evolutionary steps from the original 1911. The first major evolution was the “double-stack 1911” or “widebody,” pioneered by companies like Para-Ordnance in the late 1980s.⁷³ These pistols, like some modern Rock Island Armory models, feature a traditional one-piece steel or alloy frame that is simply widened to accommodate a higher-capacity, staggered magazine.⁷⁵ The true “2011” represents a more significant design evolution, patented by STI (now Staccato) and SVI in the 1990s.⁷⁶ The key distinction of a genuine 2011 is its modular, two-piece frame architecture.⁷⁵ This design consists of a steel or aluminum upper frame (which is the serialized part containing the slide rails and fire control group) mated to a separate polymer or aluminum grip module.⁷⁶ This modularity allows for greater customization and is credited with a different recoil impulse.⁷⁹ While the term “2011”—a trademark owned by Staccato—is now often used colloquially for any double-stack 1911, the underlying engineering is distinct.⁸⁰ The platform’s transition from a niche competition gun to a mainstream duty and defensive firearm, largely driven by Staccato’s success, has triggered a market-wide pivot.⁷³ This has led numerous manufacturers, including Springfield Armory (Prodigy) and Kimber (2K11), to introduce their own double-stack models to capture this growing segment.⁷³
The Optics-Ready Standard: Across all tiers, the inclusion of factory optics-ready slide cuts is rapidly becoming a standard feature rather than a custom upgrade. This reflects a broader market shift in the acceptance of red dot sights as a primary sighting system for handguns.
Pressure from Imports: High-quality Turkish and Filipino manufacturers, particularly Tisas and Rock Island Armory, are applying significant pressure on the lower and middle tiers of the market. By offering features like forged frames and slides at D-Tier prices, they are forcing American C-Tier and B-Tier manufacturers to justify their higher price points through superior fit, finish, and quality control.⁶¹

The future of the 1911/2011 market will likely be defined by these trends. The platform’s enduring appeal ensures its survival, but the landscape will continue to shift as manufacturers adapt to the demand for higher capacity, optics integration, and the ever-present pressure to deliver value in a competitive global market.

Appendix: Data Collection and Scoring Methodology

Data Sources

This report synthesizes data from a wide range of sources to ensure a comprehensive and balanced analysis. The sources are categorized as follows:

Manufacturer Direct Specifications: Official websites, product catalogs, and technical manuals were consulted for stated materials, manufacturing processes, and performance guarantees.²⁰
Industry & Technical Publications: Reputable firearms publications (e.g., American Rifleman, Guns & Ammo) and technical gunsmithing manuals (e.g., Kuhnhausen series) were used for professional reviews and mechanical analysis.¹⁰
Government & Military Documentation: Original ordnance blueprints and contract award information were referenced to establish the mil-spec baseline and verify performance claims related to elite unit adoption.⁹
Community Sentiment Analysis: A structured review of long-term owner experiences, reliability reports, and customer service feedback was conducted on high-signal-to-noise online forums, with a primary focus on 1911addicts.com and pistol-forum.com for their knowledgeable user bases.⁶⁹

Scoring Rubric

Each manufacturer was scored on a 1-10 scale across five core criteria. This rubric provides a transparent and repeatable methodology for assigning these scores.

Quality (Materials & Manufacturing):

1-3: Primarily uses cast major components (frame/slide) and a high percentage of low-quality MIM parts.
4-6: Uses forged major components but with extensive use of MIM for most small parts.
7-8: Uses forged major components, high-quality tool steel or bar stock for critical parts, and minimal/high-quality MIM for non-critical parts. Good CNC machining and some hand-fitting.
9-10: All components are machined from forged or billet steel. Explicit “No MIM Parts” policy. Extensive hand-fitting by master-level gunsmiths.
Durability (Longevity & Resistance to Wear):

1-3: Widespread reports of premature parts failure or breakage.
4-6: Meets expected service life for a recreational firearm with proper maintenance.
7-8: Built with high-quality, durable materials (e.g., forged steel, proper heat treatment) suitable for hard/duty use.
9-10: Has passed a documented, high-round-count military or law enforcement endurance test (e.g., the 50,000-round FBI protocol) or has a proven track record of extreme durability in professional use.
Accuracy (Mechanical Precision):

1-3: Consistently groups larger than 4 inches at 25 yards.
4-6: Standard service-grade accuracy (approx. 3-4 inches at 25 yards).
7-8: Features a match-grade barrel and good component fit, capable of 1.5-2.5 inch groups at 25 yards.
9-10: Sold with an explicit accuracy guarantee of 1.5 inches or less at 25 yards (or a correspondingly tighter group at 50 yards).
Reliability (Function Across Conditions):

1-3: Known to be ammunition-sensitive and require a significant break-in period; frequent malfunctions reported.
4-6: Generally reliable with quality magazines and standard ball ammunition.
7-8: Demonstrates high reliability with a wide range of high-performance defensive ammunition.
9-10: Proven to be exceptionally reliable in extreme conditions through professional adoption or rigorous, documented testing.
Customer Satisfaction (Market Consensus):

1-3: Overwhelmingly negative market sentiment regarding product quality and/or customer service.
4-6: Mixed reviews; some satisfied customers, but a significant number of complaints regarding quality control or service.
7-8: Generally positive market sentiment; brand is considered reliable and customer service is responsive.
9-10: Overwhelmingly positive market sentiment; brand is revered for its quality, and customer service is considered industry-leading.

Tier Assignment by Total Score

The final tier for each manufacturer is determined by their total score out of a possible 50 points. The score ranges are defined to create logical groupings based on the quality levels observed in the market.

S-Tier: 48-50
A-Tier: 40-47
B-Tier: 34-39
C-Tier: 28-33
D-Tier: <28

If you find this post useful, please share the link on Facebook, with your friends, etc. Your support is much appreciated and if you have any feedback, please email me at in**@*********ps.com. Please note that for links to other websites, we are only paid if there is an affiliate program such as Avantlink, Impact, Amazon and eBay and only if you purchase something.

Works cited

A Comprehensive Journey Through the Rich History of 1911 Pistols – Fusion Firearms, accessed August 10, 2025, https://fusionfirearms.com/videovault/post/a-comprehensive-journey-through-the-rich-history-of-1911-pistols
A Brief History of the Model 1911 Handgun – Let’s Go Shooting, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.letsgoshooting.org/resources/articles/firearms/a-brief-history-of-the-model-1911-handgun/
Surprising 1911 Handgun Manufacturers – The Mag Life – GunMag Warehouse, accessed August 10, 2025, https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/surprising-1911-handgun-manufacturers/
High End & Most Expensive 1911’s – Guns – USCCA Community, accessed August 10, 2025, https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/high-end-most-expensive-1911s/97283
M1911 .45 Caliber Pistol – The Army Historical Foundation, accessed August 10, 2025, https://armyhistory.org/m1911-45-caliber-pistol/
The U.S. ‘.45 Automatics:’ M1911 & M1911A1 Pistols | An Official Journal Of The NRA, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/the-u-s-45-automatics-m1911-m1911a1-pistols/
How to Speak 1911: Evolutionary Differences – Guns.com, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.guns.com/news/2019/11/14/how-to-speak-1911-holding-class-on-the-evolutionary-differences
M1911A1: America’s Definitive World War Two Pistol – YouTube, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP8kFUgk1sU&pp=0gcJCfwAo7VqN5tD
Colt 1911 Pistol Slide Blue Prints | PDF | Heat Treating | Metals – Scribd, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.scribd.com/document/184615086/Colt-1911-pistol-slide-blue-prints
Six M1911A1 Pistols Worth a Serious Look – Guns and Ammo, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/six-m1911a1-pistols-worth-a-serious-look/363402
Centrefire self-loading military pistol – Colt M1911A1 – dated 1943 | Collection Object | Royal Armouries, accessed August 10, 2025, https://royalarmouries.org/collection/object/object-76137
Forged? Cast? MIM? Stamped?, accessed August 10, 2025, http://www.mimsupplier.com/forged-cast-mim-stamped.html
Machinery: Making World-Famous Automatic Pistol | PDF | Handgun | Trigger (Firearms) – Scribd, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.scribd.com/doc/142190905/1911-Manufacture
Forging vs. Casting: 6 Key Differences to Consider – Bunty LLC, accessed August 10, 2025, https://buntyllc.com/forging-vs-casting/
Forged Steel vs. Cast Steel – The Armory Life, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.thearmorylife.com/forged-vs-cast-steel/
How to Make a Gun – Springfield Armory National Historic Site (U.S. National Park Service), accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.nps.gov/spar/learn/historyculture/making-guns.htm
Springfield Operator vs. Mil-Spec 1911 – The Armory Life, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.thearmorylife.com/springfield-operator-vs-mil-spec-1911/
1911 Face-Off: Emissary vs. the Mil-Spec – The Armory Life, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.thearmorylife.com/1911-face-off-emissary-vs-the-mil-spec/
Custom Modification for M1911 Pistols – The Sight 1911, accessed August 10, 2025, https://sightm1911.com/lib/tech/custom_mods.htm
Anatomy of a Cabot, accessed August 10, 2025, https://cabotguns.com/anatomy-of-a-cabot/
CQB 1911 Handguns – Wilson Combat, accessed August 10, 2025, https://wilsoncombat.com/handguns/1911-handguns/cqb.html
Gun Review: Les Baer Premier II – The 1911 With Guaranteed Accuracy – Omaha Outdoors, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/blog/les-baer-premier-ii-1911-guaranteed-accuracy-gun-review/
Metal Injection Molding Revolutionizing the Defence Industry – INDO-MIM, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.indo-mim.com/metal-injection-molding-mim-defence/
About Us – Wilson Combat, accessed August 10, 2025, https://wilsoncombat.com/wc-about-us
2022 DAN WESSON PRODUCT GUIDE, accessed August 10, 2025, https://danwessonfirearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/9993-CZ-Dan-Wesson-Product-Guidewithout_DWX4-5-22.pdf
Nighthawk Custom: Handbuilding The World’s Finest Custom Firearms, accessed August 10, 2025, https://news.dupontregistry.com/the-lifestyle/gear/nighthawk-custom-handbuilding-the-worlds-finest-custom-firearms/
The FBI M1911 Contracts – The Sight 1911, accessed August 10, 2025, https://sightm1911.com/lib/history/fbi_1911.htm
Springfield Armory Professional 1911 .45 FBI Gun PC9111 | 7+1 Rounds, 5″ Barrel, Wood Grips, Blue/Black, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/62089/springfield+armory+professional+1911+.45+fbi+gun
This SWAT team was an early adopter of the Staccato P. Here’s why., accessed August 10, 2025, https://staccato2011.com/blog/this-swat-team-was-an-early-adopter-of-the-staccato-p-here-s-why-
Staccato 2011 pistols duty-approved by over 250 agencies – Police1, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/articles/staccato-2011-pistols-duty-approved-by-over-250-agencies-tZE1jpXIZhcpCMrX/
Tisas Raider: Colt M45A1 USMC CQB Pistol Clone – The Shooter’s Log, accessed August 10, 2025, https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/tisas-raider-colt-m45a1-usmc-cqb-pistol-clone/
Colt’s M45 Marine Close Quarters Combat Pistol | David Freeman, accessed August 10, 2025, https://texasgunpros.net/2022/02/16/colts-m45-marine-close-quarters-combat-pistol/
Staccato’s KC Eusebio Wins 12th World Speed Title, accessed August 10, 2025, https://staccato2011.com/blog/staccato-s-kc-eusebio-wins-12th-world-speed-title
Team Staccato’s Michelle Viscusi Wins High Lady at USPSA Area 4 Championship, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.nrawomen.com/content/team-staccato-s-michelle-viscusi-wins-high-lady-at-uspsa-area-4-championship
Match Results Details – USPSA.ORG, accessed August 10, 2025, https://uspsa.org/match-results-details?action=summary&index=31933&compid=214
Wilson Combat 1911 Professional Elite 45 ACP SAO 4″ 8+1 RD PROEPR45 – RK Guns, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.rkguns.com/wilson-combat-1911-professional-elite-45-acp-sao-4-81-rd-proepr45.html
Testimonials – Wilson Combat, accessed August 10, 2025, https://wilsoncombat.com/wc-testimonials
Custom Guns & Firearms Including 1911 Pistols, 6-Shot Revolvers & Shotguns, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.nighthawkcustom.com/
Testimonials – Nighthawk Custom, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.nighthawkcustom.com/nh-testimonials
Damascus Steel 1911 Pistols – Custom Made by Cabot Guns, accessed August 10, 2025, https://cabotguns.com/damascus-steel-1911/
Reviews – Cabot Guns, accessed August 10, 2025, https://cabotguns.com/reviews/
Custom 1911 Pistols by Cabot Guns – Makers of the Meteorite Gun Set, accessed August 10, 2025, https://cabotguns.com/
Strayer Voigt Inc – Wikipedia, accessed August 10, 2025, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strayer_Voigt_Inc
SVI INFINITY 2011 – Custom .45 ACP, by Yosh3D – The Rookies, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.therookies.co/projects/78607
Conversion Grip Kit For Staccato/STI – Atlas Gunworks, accessed August 10, 2025, https://atlasgunworks.com/product-details?id=266060208
The Ultimate 1911 and 2011 Extractor Tuning Video from Atlas Gunworks, accessed August 10, 2025, https://atlasgunworks.com/blog/the-ultimate-1911-and-2011-extractor-tuning-video-from-atlas-gunworks
The Best 2011 Pistols of 2025, Tested and Reviewed – Outdoor Life, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.outdoorlife.com/guns/best-2011-pistols/
Atlas Gunworks – 1911 / 1911 DS Handguns, Parts, & Accessories, accessed August 10, 2025, https://atlasgunworks.com/
LES BAER 2025.pdf, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.lesbaer.com/images/LES%20BAER%202025.pdf
Baer 1911 CMP-Legal National Match Hardball Pistol – Les Baer Custom Inc., accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.lesbaer.com/CMP.html
About Ed Brown Products, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.edbrown.com/about/
1911 AUTO DROP-IN MATCH BARRELS – YouTube, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY2rfodhQao
Benefits of the 1911 as a police duty pistol – Police1, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/articles/the-case-for-the-1911-QlLjxBUmbd32twIl/
Customer Testimonials | Ed Brown Products, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.edbrown.com/customer-testimonials/
How We Build Staccato Pistols | Behind The Scenes, accessed August 10, 2025, https://staccato2011.com/blog/how-we-build-staccato-pistols-behind-the-scenes
Best 2011 Pistols Available – Guns.com, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.guns.com/news/best-2011-pistols
Navigating the Legacy: Dan Wesson 1911s in the Golden State – You Should Know, accessed August 10, 2025, https://avaria.dyverse.com/navigating-the-legacy-dan-wesson-1911s-in-the-golden-state/
Review: Dan Wesson ECP – A Bushingless 1911 Commander in 9mm – Handguns, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/review-dan-wesson-ecp-a-bushingless-1911-commander-in-9mm/357239
DW SPECIALIST BLACK OPTICS-READY – Dan Wesson Firearms, accessed August 10, 2025, https://danwessonfirearms.com/product/dw-specialist-black-optics-ready/
catoutdoors.com, accessed August 10, 2025, https://catoutdoors.com/best-1911-guns/
7 Best Affordable 1911s (For Your Budget) – Pew Pew Tactical, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-affordable-1911s/
Tisas 1911 A1 Service and Tisas 1911 45 ACP – Gunbuyer, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.gunbuyer.com/blog/tisas-1911-a1-service-and-tisas-1911-45-acp.html
True to Form: The Tisas 1911A1 ASF | The Armory Life Forum, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/true-to-form-the-tisas-1911a1-asf.19545/
1911 Mil-Spec Handguns – Springfield Armory, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series-handguns/1911-mil-spec-handguns/
Armscor International, Inc – Rock Island Armory, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.armscor.com/rock
1911 Blueprints: Why You Need Them and How to Get Them – Modern Service Weapons, accessed August 10, 2025, https://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=14845
The U.S. M1911/M1911A1 Pistols & Commercial M1911 Type Pistols – A Shop Manual, accessed August 10, 2025, http://www.galimbertipaolo.it/PDF/Colt1911.pdf
Colt 1911 Blueprints (18 pages), accessed August 10, 2025, https://ia801307.us.archive.org/29/items/Colt_1911_Blueprints_18_pages/Colt_1911_Blueprints_18_pages_text.pdf
Nighthawk Custom: A Legacy Of Craftsmanship And Excellence | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.ssusa.org/content/nighthawk-custom-a-legacy-of-craftsmanship-and-excellence/
What’s he got? FBI hostage rescue team circa 2001. : r/1911 – Reddit, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.reddit.com/r/1911/comments/103fhzs/whats_he_got_fbi_hostage_rescue_team_circa_2001/
MIM parts : r/1911 – Reddit, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.reddit.com/r/1911/comments/1ay4f1o/mim_parts/
Any opinions +/- on the Springfield Mil Spec 1911? Review says its nice, but not being built anymore. Is it worth acquiring? – Reddit, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.reddit.com/r/1911/comments/298mye/any_opinions_on_the_springfield_mil_spec_1911/
Springfield Armory Prodigy Double-Stack 9mm 1911s: Review – Handguns, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.handgunsmag.com/editorial/prodigy-ds-1911s/467290
Para-Ordnance P14-45 – Wikipedia, accessed August 10, 2025, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para-Ordnance_P14-45
What Is A 2011? Double-Stack 1911s vs Widebody Frames Explained – Alien Gear Holsters, accessed August 10, 2025, https://aliengearholsters.com/blogs/news/what-is-a-2011
A Guide To Double-Stack 1911s | An Official Journal Of The NRA – American Rifleman, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/a-guide-to-double-stack-1911s/
The 2011 Pistol: Refitting the 1911 for a New Century – Free Range American, accessed August 10, 2025, https://freerangeamerican.us/2011-pistol/
1911 vs 2011: The Ultimate Handgun Showdown – Craft Holsters, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.craftholsters.com/1911-vs-2011-which-one-is-better
The love for 2011 – Guns – USCCA Community, accessed August 10, 2025, https://community.usconcealedcarry.com/t/the-love-for-2011/84796
1911 and 2011 Handguns – Inside Safariland, accessed August 10, 2025, https://inside.safariland.com/blog/1911-and-2011-handguns/
Understanding the Legacy and Impact of the 2011 Pistol: Revolutionizing Firearms, accessed August 10, 2025, https://www.anrkydexholsters.com/understanding-the-legacy-and-impact-of-the-2011-pistol-revolutionizing-firearms/

1911, Philippines

Added Browne Works Wood Grips to My New RIA 52000 Big Rock

March 23, 2024 RoninsGrips

Back in May 2023, I posted how I put Browne Works wood grips on my 9mm RIA 51679 Tac Ultra. I was honest when I said I did not like wood Grips before I saw what Mark Browne produces and actually had them on a pistol.

In early March 2023, I picked up my second RIA 52000 Pro Ultra Match 6″ HC 10mm pistol – more affectionately known as “The Big Rock”, which is exactly what it is. I sold my first Big Rock many years ago because I needed the funds and regretted it once I started making custom 10mm mags for whole family of high-cap 10mm and .40 S&W RIA pistols. I couldn’t buy a new one at the time because Armscor, who owns RIA, only seems to make them periodically. Maybe 2-3 years later after I wished I had it and was looking, 52000s started popping up on my saved searches – Gunbroker alerted me first and I bought one about a week later. [A number of places have them now including GrabAGun – click here]

I should add that as soon as I ordered the pistol, the next thing I did was to order another set of grip panels from Mark Browne. His grips just look and feel great compared to the rather boring but durable G10 composite grip panels that come with the pistols.

Bottom left is the new Big Rock with its factory grip Panels. Above it and to the right is the 51679 with Mark’s wood panels. The lighting doesn’t do the wood justice.

Here is a better view of the wood on the 51679 plus you can always go to the blog post about it and see more.

The new panels for the Big Rock arrived

I emailed Mark and told him how much I liked the first set and he said he’d look for one with plenty of grain and contrast. What showed up was awesome.

Fitting them to the Big Rock

While RIA does use modern CNC machines to make the frames, the funnel fitment can vary – I know this based on clients that have fitment issues with the relatively shorter 9mm mags using Dawson Base Plates. Either they do not use a jig or it moves and wheter the funnel sits exactly can very. Why this matters is that you may find the panels go right on or you may need to fit them. DO NOT FORCE THEM! So let’s step through this.

Each OEM grip panel is held in place with two unique Allen head screws. Remove the screws and the panel lifts right off. Note in this photo how very little material is between the grip screws hole and the funnel – that’s tight.

The pistols are made in the Philippines and then need to travel across the Pacific. They liberally coat these pistols in preservative oil and this is one example of how much they use. Have a towel or rag handy to wipe this stuff off before you start installing the wood panels. By the way, this is typical of all the RIA 1911 pistols and again highlights why you need to clean them.

This side went right on without adjustments being needed. That was an unexpected pleasant surprise. They panels need to seat fully without pressure being needed. If you try to force them in, something will snap.

Everything is nice and flat and the screws went in without forcing them. The screws are installed until they are firm – not so tight the wood snaps – they just have to keep the grip panel in position, You do need to use a dab of medium-strength screw threadlocker such as Loc-Tite Blue to keep the screws from backing out.

The other side had issues. Teh funnel was riding high here and the panel would not even seat fully. To adjust the wood, take a single cut file and remove a bit of wood from the bottom and try over and over.

Fitting is slow work with wood. It is better to be able to take more off than wish you could put it back on. After maybe 5-10 minutes I thought I had the panel good to go but it was still riding too high and the screw could not seat properly. So, more fiiling and testing until it fit completely.

Take your time and you will get a nice fit without a gap. This is a great example of time, patience and handwork can generate a far better end result than being in a rush with a sander and taking off too much. The bottom is the new Big Rock.

The top is the new Big Rock with it’s 6″ barrel and slide. I really like the gloss finish. It really brings out the contrast in the wood.

Summary

I can’t stress it enough – I really like the grip panels from BrowneWorks. The quality, fit, feel, finish … they are all there. If you are even remotely considering new wood panels for your RIA A2 High Cap pistol, you really ought to check out their website. Look for the menu button in the top left of the screen, click on it and then look for Rock Island grips.

Note, I have to buy all of my parts – nothing here was paid for by sponsors, etc. I do make a small amount if you click on an ad and buy something but that is it. You’re getting my real opinion on stuff.

1911

Why you need to clean, lube and break in Rock Island Armory Pistols

March 16, 2024 RoninsGrips

As some of you may know, we make custom magazines for the Armscor Rock Island Armory (RIA) A2 HC family of .40 and 10mm pistols. Once in a while I get to talk to a new owner before they go to the range and either they ask for advice or I give it regardlesss 🙂 I will tell anyone that will listen that they need to clean, lubricate and cycle their pistols 200 times before they go to the range. I’ve been sharing this advice for years but never really had evidence. Guess what? Now I do and I truly hope people will take this to heart and do it.

I recently purchased a RIA 52000 Big Rock – this is their 6″ barrelled 10mm match pistol. I had one years ago that I sold when I needed money and regretted it – especially after I started making the custom mags. What I am going to show you is true of all Rock Island 1911-style pistols – not just the A2 HC models – and for almost all semi-automatic factory-produced firearms. They are not ready to go out of the box and if you take them straight to the range they are going to fail a lot, you’re going to get frustrated, blame the gun/ammo/mag/dealer and it’s not their fault so please read the following and heed the advice.

Opening the Factory Box

For RIA 1911 pistols, they ship them in a bag absolutely coated in some kind of oil – just what I am not sure. Do not look at that and think it is all lubricated and ready to go. It absolutely is not and it is actually pretty dirty – you need to get rid of all of that including the junk in the bore.

STOP is right. What is in the bag is not ready to go.

First off, wipe it down. It will be drenched in oil to keep it from rusting. The 52000 Big Rock is definitely big.

This is what your white towel will look like. Note it is not just clean oil – there is debris in it and it’s not inteded to lubricate but to prevent rust. This stuff is everywhere in the pistol and we need to field strip the pistol, clean and oil it to ensure proper functioning.

Now you may be thinking your Glock was pristine compared to that and while it was cleaner it was also pretty dry and needed to be lubricated. The Rock Islands are decent but they need to be cleaned up.

How about the barrel?

The anti-corrosion “oil” and grime are everywhere in the pistol.

This is a real photo of an area of the bore before cleaning. It was captured with my Teslong borescope. The brass or copper color is probably from the test firing they did but the main thing for you to see is all of the preservative and grime in there, You do not want to shoot with this junk in there as it could adversely affect the pistol in any number of ways including affecting accuracy, By the way, the Teslong Rigid Rifle Borescope with 1080P resolution is pretty remarkable. I really like mine – it’s many times better than anything I have experimented with that I could afford.

I have used Ramrodz for years – the giant Q-tips on the right – to clean pistols. I just started trying the Clenzoil Bore Stix (on the left) and they seem to be decent with the advantage of having a cleaner/lubricant on them already. The Ramrodz being unprepared let me decide what I want to coat them with given the situation at hand so pros and cons with both. BTW- the sticks can snap easily so you hold them close up by the “bulb” when you insert them and then run the back and forth with the stick.

Here’s what the first Ramrodz looked like after I ran it up and down the bore a few times. It was coated with Kroil penetrating oil to help break things free. You can see the grime that came out.

I then decided to try a Bore Stix with just its normal coating.

The Clenzoil BoreStix seemed to remove even more grime than the Ramrodz but it is hard to say because the Kroil was in there working as I switched from the RamRodz to the Bore Stix.

This is after cleaning and lubricating. Again, the Teslong borescope is a game changer for me in terms of actually seeing the bore in considerable detail.

What I want you to take away from this section is to clean the bore – you can absolutely use your favorite method – patches, boresnake, whatever – but definitely clean it.

Field Stripping the Pistol

Armscor includes a half-way decent manual about how to field-strip your 1911 and I recommend you read it. Some of their models have barrel bushings and they have at least two models of full length guide rods that I know of. You just need to break the pistol down into its major groups – do not start taking apart the frame unless you seriously know what you are doing or you are going to get a hard lesson in how a 1911 goes together internally and it is not simple enough for the average shooter in my honest opinion. If you are a person that assembles 1911s from the bare frame – go ahead and do it. Have fun. If you have never disassembled and reassembled a 1911 – don’t. You don’t have to at this point is the bottom line.

One unique thing about the Big Rock you need to know is the unique full length guide rod (FLGR) they used and as far as I know, it is not in any other RIA pistol. If you have one of the 10mms, you are aware of the FLGR design which uses a pin to capture the two halves of the FLGR from separating, The Big Rock’s FLGR is threaded. To remove it, you turn counter-clockwise quite a few turns to unscrew the two halves and separate them. Now pay attention – that is a 20 pound spring in there and it will launch one half or the other so capture or retain the assembly by securing it with your other hand to prevent you from digging around for a launched part.

That slotted part is the FLGR and it is removed by turning it counter clockwise. I was taking pictures here – remove it with the slide closed so there is less tension on the spring. Notice the dent in the outer edge of the barrek at about the 5 o-clock position. The crown was fine and that’s what really matters. I’m not going to bother sending it back.

I’m not going to write a comprehensive guide to lubricating a 1911, read your pistol’s manual. I will tell you I now use ALG’s Go-Juice which is a thin grease on anything that slides. Before the ALG, I used Super Lube Synthetic Grease applied with an acid brush and before that I used wheel bearing grease. I would at least recommend doing this while the weapon breaks in. If you want to go to an oil later after it has worn in, then do it by all means. Right now though, you need the extra lubrication the grease brings. If surfaces slide together, use grease.

If they turn, use oil. I am all over the place trying oils. Right now, I am using ALG’s biosynthetic stuff. Don’t ask me what is in it. Before that I have used a ton of different oils – MGW, Super Lube, Mobil 1, etc., etc., etc.

Getting a jump on breaking in the pistol

You will hear guys call it “breaking in”, “wearing in”, “letting the parts get to know each other” – they all refer to any firearm needing to smooth out parts through their normal cycling. Expensive guns, such as customs and semi-customs, an experienced gunsmith used huning stones, rubberize abrasive bits or whatever was their preffered tool, to get rid of the tooling marks and sharp edges to give you a smooth weapon right out of the box.

Well, RIA is not expensive and they don’t spend a ton of time fitting and tuning their parts for a perfect fit. You know what? I’m fine with that – it’s easy to smooth things out but first I want to show you why you need to do this via some digital photos courtesy of an Andonstar AD246S-M digital microscope.

The following are example photos showing the tooling marks on various areas that need to slide freely. The tooling marks are everywhere and cause friction until the places where surfaces contact start to wear down the protruding areas:

Sample of tooling marks on slide rail area

Tooling marks on the receiver’s slide area.

Front of the left side of the receiver – the shiny areas are already making contact with the slide and wearing in.

Again, the above are all examples. Areas starting to shine are wearing in and starting to smooth out. I’d maybe cycled the slide a dozes or so times before the above photos were taken as I wanted to show before.

Now, there are tons of things you could do with honing storines, rubberized abrasive bits and even with lapping stones. If you want to do one or more of those, go for it. I have an even simpler solution – rack the slide open and closed a couple hundred times. Literally, don’t have a mag in it and work it back and forth over and over. It’s a workout with that 20# spring but it will accelerate wear-in dramatically. Think about it, a lot of firearms get more reliable just under a 100 rounds. You are really smoothing things out at 200, What you will notice is that if you do the above, you will not waste a lot of time and money dealing with jams.

How do I know this? I have owned a number of RIA pistols over the years. My test pistols that I use to test each mag before they leave have been handcycled thousands of times and the slide feels like that of a high-end pistol – like it is sliding on glass.

The following photos show contact areas after thousands of cycles:

Shiny areas neans the parts wore together and smoothed out.

In this area the tooling marks are all but gone.

Again, lots of wear – only the deepest tooling marks are still there.

Guys are always surprised how smooth these pistols are and then even more surprised when I tell them they are unmodified RIA pistols that have had their slides cycled thousands of times.

So, do you need thousands of times? No, just go for 200 and you can do more if you really want to.

Last comment on the FLGR and reassembling it

I seriously started hating on the unique Big Rock FLGR design when it came time to put it back together. You are fighting a 20# spring and I couldn’t remember how I did my last one years ago or find any tips or tricks about how to do it. The best thing I can tell you is that you need to secure the back half against the barrel link with the left hand. Insert the front section with the right and try to get front threaded insert into the hood of the back, try to hold them in approximate alignment as you try to screw the front half back in. Translation – it sucks and I have no tips.

I haven’t gotten this frustrated iin a while. The FLGR assembly is those three parts – the 20# spring and the two sliver rods. The one saving grace, the only saving grace for that matter, is the design of how they come together. The two shafts need to line up with the front long part with the slot sliding into the short stubby back part hat has a hooded opening.

This photo was mere seconds before I launched the back half six feet away where it luckily hit a wall and dropped in plain sight because I wasn’t keeping it secure enough with my left hand. Note, I still have a 1911 recoil spring plug somewhere that launched in my shop and was never found.

This is just to prove it is possible to get them back together. Note the purple ALG thin grease on the slide.

Summary

I hope this post helps impress on you the need to clean, lubricate and cycle your pistol, or whatever firearm, before you go to the range the first time. I do this myself and have shared it with many, many folks over the years and the feedback has always been positive.

By the way, the majority of guys who contact me hating on the RIA pistols did not break them in so I walk them through this. The second largest majority are really frustrated with the OEM magazine.

If you need mags for your 10mm or .40 RIA pistol (notably models 52009, 52682 or 52000 – also called the “A2” or “HC” series pistols (the big staggered 15-16 round models), please think of us. Our mags are far, far better than the OEM mags that come with the pistols – better springs, longer, antifriction coating and more.

1911, Uncategorized

We are Labelling Our Custom 10mm Mags For Rock Island Armory A2 HC Pistols

July 19, 2023 RoninsGrips

We’ve made and sold hundreds of our custom magazines for the Rock Island Armory (RIA) A2 HC (High Cap) 10mm & .40 S&W pistols. These pistols are based on the Para design with a staggereed magazines that hold 15 rounds normally. Our mags hold 16 and are slightly longer.

The main reason I am writing this post is that our magazines use tubes originally made for the Para P14 pistol chambered in .45 ACP so they are stamped “P14-45” and there hasn’t been an elegant way to change that – the tubes are hardened and trying to stamp something else in would be messy. A laser engraver is an option but I don’t have one.

I was working on another project involving “permanent” labels – these are labels that have a really strong adhesive and last far better than regular labels. “Permanent” is a marketing term though – they can wear off, etc.

At any rate, it dawned on me that with the right size, I could have a clear thick vinyl label made with white ink that has “10mm & .40 S&W” written on it and that’s just what I did. You’ll find these on the baseplates going forward

So, yes, our tubes still have P14-.45 on them but now they have the correct chambering on the decal on the baseplate.

This is a normal baseplate with the label.

This is a baseplate that has been riveted closed because the tube has been blocked to 10 rounds. We also make 15 round limited mags. They are for folks who live in an area that has magazine limits.

By the way, if you ever want to confirm whether one of my mags is for 10mm or .40 S&W, the gap between the front feed lips will be between .370 and .390.

If you are interested in buying a magazine, please click here to go to our store. All of our magazines are converted, tuned and tested by hand one at a time.

1911, 1911 / 2011

Improperly Adjusted Feed Lips in a Rock Island A2 HC Pistol Can Cause Failure to Eject

April 3, 2023 RoninsGrips

One of the things I enjoy about the firearm industry is meeting neat people. Dan Barnett contacted me a few weeks back. He is a certified “polymer” pistol armorer and had recently got into 1911s. As part of the journey, he purchased a used Rock Island Armory 51679 Tac Ultra FS HC 9mm and was trying to sort out why it was failing to eject way more than he cared for and he would have an empty case and a round trying to be fed in the slide at the same time. He and I hit it off because we both like the soft shooting Rocks.

Because of my past experiences with RIA Tac Ultra 9mm extractors failing, I asked him how his looked and he told me that it looked nice and sharp – no broken parts. I send him my blog post on extractors and recommended he switch his to a Wilson Combat if he ever runs into a problem or wants to make the upgrade anyways.

There was a possibility the extractor tension was too light but I figured we’d assume it was okay for the moment. Note, if you open a slide slowly and watch the cartridge or casing being extracted, the extractor should maintain control all the way to the ejector. If it doesn’t and the extractor looks ok then it is most likely the tension and there are specialty gauges out there for testing and setting them.

With the extractor tentatively ruled out, what I told him was that not many people understand how critical the magazine feed lips are to proper feeding and ejection of a 1911 and that his Tac Ultra was just that – an oversize 1911.

What can happen is that the front feed lip gap can be set too wide allowing the front of the cartridge to tilt up in the air too far. Then, as the newly extracted case comes backwards, the riding too high bullet pushes the spent case up just enough to miss the ejector. Honestly, there is a really delicate brilliant dance going on inside a 1911 and all it takes is something to be off just enough and things go wrong.

Dan took his calipers to the four mags he had and the front of the feed lips that can be adjusted were all over 0.320″ and I recommend starting somewhere between 0.308 to 0.312″. There isn’t a magic number due to all of the variables one can encounter. Too wide and it can cause a failure to eject or stove piping. You can even have rounds falling out of the mag. Too narrow and you have the cartridge moving straight ahead, smashing nose first into the feedramp and stopping / jamming right then and there.

You can see the ejector is just above the rear rim of the dummy round and the round is angled up slightly. If that nose is up too much, it will nudge the extracting case high enough to miss or intermittently miss the extractor.

This is looking down at the face of the slide – what I want you to see is that there is nothing there to limit the round from working its way towards the top of the slide. The extractor has a firm grip on the rim of the case but that’s it.

Dan asked what he should do, I told him to disassemble the magazine and then carefully hold the magazine budy (the “tube”) on a table or better yet a piece of wood that lets the bottom lips dangle but supports the magazine all the upwards. Then lightly tap on each front side of the magazine to close the gap. Light tap left, light tap right, and measure. Repeat until it gets to the right gap – either via measurement or testing the mag with some dummy rounds.

This is a Steelworx machined stainless steel 9mm dummy round and what I prefer to use these days for testing. I no longer use the blue A-Zoom snap caps as they are not dimensionally identical to a true 115 9mm FMJ round. To adjust the lips, disassemble the mag and then tap on the front of the feed lips only – in the case you can see they are tapered in and are closest to the red. You do not need to hit on the other parts. By tapping on the front the steel lip will gracefully bend in the direction you are tapping it.

Dan adjusted his gap to be around around 0.3095 by looking at where the bullet would hit the ramp/enter the chamber and testing . Your gap could be different from his.

By the way, the back of the magazine is fixed due to the folded metal ears that form the back of the lips. You can’t adjust them much at all or they will buckle or break. I leave them alone.

This tapping doesn’t take a ton of effort so use a light hammer and light taps – this is not a “mongo smash” moment because if you crush the neck of the mag, it’s game over unless you have a mandrel to open it back up. These days I use a light body hammer to do the work.

If you go too far and need to open the lips, use malleable chain pliers also known as chandelier or lamp chain pliers to open the lips back up. External snap ring pliers can also work but are not my first choice. The chain pliers distribute the pressure along a larger area of the lips vs. the relative point pressure of the snap ring pliers’ pins.

Feed lip gaps will change with use – this is not a one time exercise and why it is a good idea to number your mags. This way you can write down the setting for each magazine or know that when you get back front the range which magazine you need to take a look at.

How did the adjustments work out for Dan? He finished a 1,000 round tactical range session with zero malfunctions. I told him to have fun because there is always something to adjust or tinker with on a 1911 and I mean that in a good way.

So, I hope this post helps you out!

1911, 1911 / 2011

Are Rock Island Armory Double Stack 9mm 1911-Style A2 HC-series Pistols Any Good?

October 20, 2022 RoninsGrips

Rock Island Armory (RIA) is a brand name that is owned by Armscor Global Defense located in Marakina, Philippines. Armscor obtained a license from the Philippine government in 1952 to begin making firearms. In 1980 it became Arms Corporation of the Philippines (ArmsCor) and in the mid-80s they bought the US brand “Rock Island Armory” and began exporting firearms to the US. They have invested in quality improvement and automation to create their wide variety of firearms offered today. They also have opened plants in the US – one in Stevensville, MT, and the other in Pahrumo, NV.

In March 2022, a Philippine TV crew visited the Armscor factory in Marakina and produced this nice video that focuses mainly on their 1911 production area:

The reason I wanted to share this with you is that RIA pistols do have a long history and Armscor is not some fly by night company. This is my opinion – I would describe RIA 1911 pistols as being designed, built and sold to shooters who want an acceptable 1911 without spending a fortune. They are not claiming to turn out semi-custom pistols – instead, good enough pistols at an affordable price point.

In marketing, when you are trying to hit a certain price point to attract the buyers you are after, you have to figure out the features, the materials, and process combination to get you there. Now reliability and accuracy are features also so this needs to be factored in – the pistols need to be good enough but not necessarily over the top – even though we wish they were.

Ok, but are the 9mm HC 17 round pistols “good”?

So let’s go back to the question – are they good? For the price, yes. You can’t compare them to far higher end pistols such as Stacatto or Bul – it’s simply not fair. It would be like comparing a daily-driver economy model Ford or GM car to a BMW. Yes, they are all cars but the engineering and attention to detail during manufacturing in the BMW are going to be very different. They are for different markets comprised on people with different disposable income levels and tastes – and have different price points.

The two pistols I am discussing to be clear are the 9mm RIA A2 HC pistols – the 51679 Tac Ultra FS HC and the 56645 Pro Ultra Match HC – by the way, FS means “Full Size” and HC means “high capacity” because they hold 17 rounds in staggered magazines.

The frames and slides are made from 4140 alloy steel via CNC and they do have QA steps. The barrel seems to be pretty decent but then the price point issue begins to creap in.

I bought four of the A2 HC 80% frames back when I was doing R&D on magazines for the 10mm/..40 S&W calibers (they use the same magazine design) and also the 9mm magazines. What not everyone knows is that these pistols also share a common frame. I installed the RIA magazine catch and ejector but they milled all of the holes and applied, as you can see, a very decent parkerized finish.

Here are two 80% frames with the top one holding a 10mm magazine and dummy red A-Zoom round. The bottom one has a 9mm magazine. The blue round is an A-zoom snap cap and I don’t use or recommend them any longer as the bullet is shaped very differently than a 115gr or 124gr FMJ round so you may think feeding will work when it doesn’t. I sure found that out the hard way.ĵ

For example, to keep costs down, Armscor uses metal injection molded (MIM) parts. I know through first hand experience, the extractors are MIM and they will not have the longevity of a forged part made from tool steel such as one from Wilson Combat *but* the extractors can be replaced if you ever have a problem so it’s not like you suddenly have a boat anchor and that’s one of the beauties of 1911-style pistols – there is a huge aftermarket parts industry and tons of websites/forums out there to help you sort out what is going on not to mention 1911 gunsmiths and that Armscor has good warranty service – I’ve had to avail on it twice – one on a 6″ 10mm Big Rock and also on a 9mm Tac Ultra that had failure to extract issues … and on that one, there was something seriously wrong because just replacing the extractor didn’t work. [Click here for a post I wrote about my extractor journeys with RIA 9mms].

The top is the original Armscor extractor and the claw snapped off. The bottom is a forged tool steel Wilscon Combat. If you run into an issue, read the post I wrote and upgrade to a Wilson.

They also use a parkerized finish and its applied very nicely. There is a but coming – but parkerizing leaves a rough finish and means they need to wear in more compared to other brands that use a different finish and/or have careful polishing and tuning while parts are assembled.

Every parkerized RIA pistol that I have seen has a very nice consistent finish on it. The left pistol is the TAC and you can tell due to the bushing, normal barrel and no checkering on the grip. The right pistol is the Match. It has a bull barrel, full length guide rod and checkering on the front of the grip. The rear sights differ but you can’t see them in this photo.

That’s an 80% frame with no modifications right next to it’s finished cousin – a 51679 Tac Ultra. Under the pistol is one of our tuned Mec-Gar P18 magazines with a Dawon +200 base plate. Click here for our 9mm RIA magazine offerings.

Conclusion

This is my way of saying they are good enough. You are buying an entry level pistol that has been on the market for many years and word would get around quickly if they were utter junk. Does the gun need wear in? Yes. Might there be issues? Yes. Do they have warranty support? Yes and they do stand behind and repair their pistols.

Would I recommend these RIA Tac Ultra FS and Pro Match Ultra HC pistols to someone looking for an entry level 17 round 9mm 1911 style pistol? You may find it odd but yes I would and I’d explain the above.

I hope this helps you out.

1/6/2023 Update: I’ve had zero problems since writing this post. Both pistols have cycled thousands of times during magazine testing (meaning rounds are cycled by hand but not actually fired) and the slides are smooth as glass. I took both to the range recently and they functioned just fine with both 115 and 124gr bulk FMJ – I think the 115gr was CCI and the 124gr was S&B if I recall right.

1911, 1911 / 2011

How Magazines Affect Reliability in Rock Island FS A2 9mm Pistols

May 8, 2022 RoninsGrips

This post reflects a journey I’ve been on regarding making and selling magazines for the 9mm Rock Island Armory (RIA) FS A2 pistols. These pistols are based on Para Ordnance designs that use a staggered magazine that can accomodate 15+ rounds in a fattened 1911 grip. Think of them as 1911 pistols on steroids with a fat grip the holds more rounds they hold more rounds so sometimes RIA calls them “HC” for high capacity.

These are my two 9mm test platforms. The top pistol is the 56645 Pro Ultra Match HC (you can see the checkering on the front strap of the grip) and the bottom is 51679 Tac Ultra FS HC.

For over a year now, I’ve been making magazines for the FS A2 pistols chambered in 10mm and .40 S&W. The interesting thing is that 9mm, .38 Super, .40 S&W and 10mm all use the same frame. You’d think making the 9mm mags would be an easy jump – I did at least — maybe it was just me.

The 10mm round is bigger than 9mm – it is fatter and longer. You don’t think about that a lot until you are trying to get the ejecting case to hit the ejector – the 10mm round is a hell of a lot easier to make hit the ejector than the 9mm. Also, the relatively short 9mm round has a long way to travel before it goes into the chamber. I found myself having to kick out some assumptions I had for magazines in order to get the 9mm round to reliably work.

In general, I now understand why the 1911 community is so fast to cast suspicion on the magazines when feed and ejection problems are happening. John Browning was an absolute genius and the 1911 design shows it but it does need all of the parts to be working together correctly to deliver a reliabile pistol.

Oh yeah, the magazines can make or break reliability. Let me share with you some observations I’ve made so far about the magazine after making a few hundred of the 9mm models either modifying P18 magazines (.38/9mm) or P16 mags (10/.40).

What about feed lip length?

The feed lips are the part of the magazine that hold the top round down and at the right angle. If they are too short, the round tends to be presented at too high of an angle and if they are too long, the front gap may not be adjustable enough to support the feed angle needed.

The blue rounds are A-Zoom Snap Caps. I use them during magazine prototyping and testing rather than live ammo The magazine lips are long pieces of rounded sheet metal that are going up the sides of the cartridge and are both positioning and retaining the round. Note the plastic “shelf” of the follower that is on the left bottom edge of each magazine that is level with the metal body. When the last round is fed from the magazine, the follower rises and that shelf is what engages the slide lock lever to put upwards pressure on it. When the slides travels rearword with the extraction and ejection of the last round, the slide lock level pushes up and locks the slide open ready for the next magazine to be fired.

The original 1911 was designed for .45 ACP but we are feeding a little short round from the back of the magazine towards the chamber a mile away. How can we maintain control? The short answer is have longer feed lips on the magazine. These longer lips are what get the relatively small 9mm round from the back of the magazine all the way into the chamber.

*“We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there”* were the famous words in “East Bound and Down” by Jerry Reed in the movie classic Smokey and the Bandit. The feed lips need to control the feeding of the cartridge all the way from the back of the magazine to the point the bullet engages the feed ramp and then starts to go into chamber. A 9mm Luger cartrdge is 1.169″ long. In comparison, 10mm Auto is 1.260″ overall. and .45 ACP is 1.275″. You might thing those differences are small but they definitely impact the design and operation of the pistol – they need to be planned for if you want reliability.

The reason I listed this section is that the length of the feed lips can vary depending on the model of pistol so if you are trying to use a magazine from another type of pistol you may find you need to trim the feed lips back. I didn’t have to change the P16 or P18 mags for the 9mm but I did need to modify the P16 Para mags to feed reliability in RIA 10mm and .40 S&W pistols.

What happens if the front feed lip gap is too wide? You tend to get a Failure to Eject (FTE) or the Slide locks open prematurely

The feed lip gap at the front of the magazine controls where the cartridge is going vertically – the angle towards the chamber. Increase the gap and the front of cartridge rises and decrease it and the angle goes down. But wait, there’s more.

If the front of the round pushes up too much, it will cause the extracting case to slide up the breech face and out of position thus missing the ejector bar you can see just above the rear of the cartidge. The tell tale is that you have the new round and the old case in the back of the slide at the same time.

Now here’s the first gotcha: The feed lip gap still controls the rise of the bullet in the front but if it goes too far, the bullet is going to interfere with extraction, pushing the extracted case upwards on the breach face of the slide and out of position to correctly engage the ejector and all of a sudden you have the old case in the slide, a new round trying to feed and you have a jam. If you go for a front feed lips gap of .305-.308″ you will be fine. Depending on your pistol once you get somewhere around .320″, you are going to cause the ejection problem I just mentioned

There’s an interesting design issue with all 1911 breech faces – they are flat. The extractor pushes the case to the right in this photo. The ejector bar is exiting its cut out from the breech face in the lower right but there is nothing to truly limit upwards travel.

I’ve spent a lot of time chasing this dimension because you tend to get better feeding the more the bullet is oriented towards the chamber but with the 9mm you have to be mindful of the impacts on the the ejecting cartridge.

By the way, in addition to interfering with ejection, a feed lip gap that is too wide can allow the follower to travel too far upwards and prematurely lock the slide open with one cartridge remaining in the magazine.

I should point out that the most likely cause of a failure to eject (FTE) is a faulty magazine. The second most likely is a worn or failing extractor. It probably is not the ejector bar.

What happens if the front feed lip gap is too narrow? You tend to get a failure to feed (FTF)

If you move the feed lips to close together, the new round that needs to be fed into the chamber comes in at too flat of an angle and smashes straight into the feed ramp. On one hand the 9mm bullet is rounded abruptly but the feed ramp is quite abrupt. I tend to find that somewhere under .302″ this happens but I haven’t done a lot of testing on this dimension because I have been more focused on wanting the cartridge angled up vs. down.

The round travels up the feed ramp but it needs have enough of an upward angle to ride the ramp up. If it is too shallow it will slam the bullet into the ramp and stop. Note that RIA did polish the ramp – that was an unexpected nice touch. In general, I’d recommend polishing the ramp smooth to aid in feeding. Also, look at the shape of the snap cap – it mimics a classic full metal jacket 115gr bullet. The curvature of the bullet will aid in feeding. Different bullet shapes can affect feeding in some pistols and you may need to tweak certain mags for certain rounds – it’s next to impossible to guess so test your pistol with certain combinations of cartrdiges and magazines to ensure they are reliable. You may find your pistol likes some and hates others. I’d probably just move to another cartridge if it were me and my pistol had issues with a given round.

Yeah, the lips have a memory

So the magazines are made of high carbon steel that is heat treated. The feed lip gap falls within a certain tolerance. If it changed either wider or narrower, the lips are going to move back towards their original positing anywhere from .002-.004″ so plan accordingly.

This is where experience matters with the mags you are working with. Once you have your dimensions figured out, you may find you need to bend further than the nominal dimension so when the sheet metal starts to relax it will stop in the range you want.

You may also find that the metal does most of its movement in some number of minutes after you do the initial tune and need to do it one more time. Some guys will wait overnight to do the final tuning. I wait at least 30 minutes.

What about left and right bends to the feed lips?

The more you bend the feed lips in one direction too much, the round will point that way and either glance the chamber wall or actually slam into the chamber and stop depending on how off you are. Try and get the cartridge to point into the center of the chamber in terms of left to right.

This is an 80% RIA frame that I used during prototyping. I’m not enough of a machinist to actually complete it but it really helps you see what is going on. If the right feed lip is bent too much to the right then the round will go in that directton – same for the left lip. You want to point the round into the center of chamber.

What about the follower?

It’s really interesting how important the follower is. On one hand it is pushing the rounds up againt the feed lips properly and on the other, there is a small “shelf” on the front left edge that pushes the slide stop lever up and locks the slide open on empty (unless you are using competition followers such as the Arredondos that purposefully do not lock the slide open).

The walls at the top of the 9mm mag really need to taper inward to properly channel the staggered round into the single exit position at the top. The follower’s sides need to be appropriately tapered and rounded as well less they drag on the walls. The original Mec-Gar followers have significant drag that you can feel when loading the mgazine so revising them made the most sense.

The Arredondo follower is on the left. It is more angled and rounded on the right side in this photo than the Mec-Gar on the right. The Arredondo was desined for competition is when you look at the bottom right edge of each you will see the Arredondo slopes down fast so it will not raise the slide stop lever. The Mec-Gar has a more elevated edge that will lock the slide open. Our modified Mec-Gar followers improve reliability by having more rounded edges but still can lock the slide open.

By the way, to make life more colorful, when you install the follower the spring tension will spread the feed lips wider by about 0.002-0.004″.

How about the spring?

The Mec-Gar springs are okay. How much spring is enough or to little really depends on how well it can keep constant upwards pressure on the follower to move the rounds up fast enough and keep them in position. With the drag on the follower reduced, the spring can do its job.

There is an exception though – if you add a magazine extension or base plate that adds capacity, the spring really ought to be longer so get a Wolff or Arredondo spring that can supply the pressure over a longer distance.

The top assembly has the a easy to identify blue Arredondo follower and longer spring. The spring is made by Wolff but is bent to properly hold the Arredondo follower. The black follower and shorter spring are the original Mec-Gar units.

Yes, springs can and do wear our so if you feel the follower is being pushed up sufficiently or is sluggish *and* the walls do not appear bent then you probably need a new spring.

What about lubricant?

Mec-Gar mags come with some lubricant all over the insides of the mags, follower, spring, floor plate and base plate. On one hand it protects against corrosion but on the other it can attract dirt.

I would recommend that you use a good dry lubricant film. I used to use Dupont’s Teflon dry lubricant film spray but they discontinued it over environmental and health concerns about Teflon. The company is now producing a dry film using a ceramic technology that I really like and find it does a remarkable job at lubricating magazines.

If you are in a marine environment and you need the corrosion protection the use the oil of your choice – you need to worry about rust, I get it. For me, the Dupont Dry Film Lube aerosol spray does a great job. The new followers and the inside of the magazine tubes coated with this enables remarkably smooth movement of the follower.

Number your magazines

A tip you really ought to consider is to number your magazines so you can keep track of them. I like stickers because you can readily remove them if you put a baseplate on a different magazine tube but there are plenty of guys who use a permanent marker or etcher to uniquely identify each magazine.

The benefit of doing this is that when you are at the range if you find that some magazine is having problems, you can write down or take a photo of the number and know what you need to work on. Face it, if you have a bunch of mags and they all look pretty similar it can be hard to keep track of them otherwise.

By numbering the magazines, I can track dimensions and performance over time.

We do sell the stickers if you are interested – click here.

I’m still learning

I don’t claim to know everything – let me right up front about that. I now know what people mean whey they say “The more I learn, the less I know”. In other words, as I learn more I am increasingly aware that there is a ton of stuff I don’t know.

Hopefully this gives you some insight about why one magazine will work great but then another one doesn’t. The above are things to consider.

My reason for writing this is to give you some idea of what we’ve learned and are building into each 9mm magazine that you buy from us – we aren’t just relabeling mags and selling them at a heck of a mark up.

What are are doing is ensuring the dimesions, doing the necessary modifications and testing teach magazine in one of our 9mm RIA pistols to ensure you get a reliable mag. If you have problems with a magazine from us, we will definitely make it right.

If you’d like to see our magazines, click here to go to our store.

We do have a new post about how to load our v2 9mm magazines to get reliable feeding. Click here for it.

1911, 1911 / 2011, Gunsmithing

My Adventures With Rock Island Armory 9mm Extractors

April 23, 2022 RoninsGrips

Starting in 2021, I started to offer 10mm magazines for the Rock Island Armory A2 HC pistols – “A2” being a marketing opportunity to refer to the next generation 1911A1 pistol prototyping the US Army did starting in 2004 that experimented with different sights, extractors, mainsprings, etc. The “HC” stands for high capacity and reflects the RIA pistols are using a staggered magazine design to hold far more rounds than a single stack could.

At any rate, I had a number of customers ask me to produce mags for the 9mm RIA A2 HC pistols – the 51679 Tac Ultra and the 56645 Pro Ultra Match HC. Our 10mm mags had proven to be very successful and after enough requests, I decided to enter the 9mm magazine market.

One thing I learned with making AK grips is that you really need to have the weapon to make a part for it. This allows you to check fitment, reinforce potentially weak areas, etc. So, when I started with the 10mm mags, I bought a 52009 Rock Ultra HC and later a 56862 Tac Ultra Match HC. Why? Because you also find that a given firearm may differ enough that if you build and test only with it, you may not be making something others can use.

There’s an engineering problem called “stacked tolerance”. Every part has a specification that says, for example “9.0mm” and then there is a tolerance specified – for example “+/- .01”. That means the part produced can range from 8.99 to 9.01 in size. Make an assembly and all of those tolerances may combine, or “stack” in such a way that if you build a part to work for that particular unit then another assembly that happens to stack in the other direction may not be able to use that part. Testing on multiple pistols helps with a testing – at least a bit because you are reducing the odds of one pistol having a problem or working and others not.

So, by having both the 52009 and 56862 10mm pistols, I could test magazines to make sure they fed right, dropped free, etc. With the 9mm pistols, I had limited funds and just started with the 51679 – the Tac Ultra. That decision bit me hard.

The Initial Magazine Prototyping Didn’t Make Sense

When I prototype, I buy a bunch of original magazines and then start looking for what is close enough to modify and start tinkering with the feed lips, feed angles, the spring and the follower. To keep track of things, I applied numbered stickers to every magazine and kept track of the dimensions plus performance.

What I also learned with the 10mm mags is that the best dummy rounds are the machined aluminum A-Zoom Snap-Caps. Dummy rounds that are made from a case and a bullet will see the bullet pushed back into the case and/or get deformed after some fairly low number of cycles. The machined aluminum A-Zoom Snap-Caps are dimensionally accurate and can cycle hundreds of times before needing to be replaced. By the way, don’t do this type of work with live rounds – it’s an accident waiting to happen.

Back to the 9mm world, I was working on the mags and things just didn’t make sense. A magazine would work and then it wouldn’t. One set of dimensions would work and then they wouldn’t. Something just wasn’t adding up. The pistol would fail to eject randomly, I’d then have the old round and the new round in the slide at the same time and of course it jammed.

It had to be the mags right? I blew through a bunch of mags and time before it dawned on me that the pistol itself must have issues. I hadn’t questioned it before because the pistol was brand new out of the box. Sure, I had cleaned and lubed it first before cycling hundreds of snap caps through it. The problem was that I assumed it was good to go and the initial testing seemed to show a reliable pistol … but I only tested a few mags worth of snap caps – maybe 34-52 cycles max.

Testing The First Pistol

I loaded a magazine up, racked the slide and loaded a snap cap. I then pulled the slide back slowly and the extractor lost control of the extracted round as I pulled the slide to the rear. That wasn’t supposed to happen. If I went slow, it would either fail to extract completely or lose control of the round.

I’m not a 1911 gunsmithing guru but I had to learn some stuff really fast. I knew if I sent the pistol back to Rock Island/Armscor, it would be at least a month before I would get it back. So I read posts and watched videos that explained the pistol had an extractor problem and how to correct it. I bought a few different brands of 9mm extractors, the Brownells extractor tool, the Jack Weigand extractor gauge and tensioning tool.

Boy, I could not get that thing to work even after trying a few different brand extractors and a Wilson. At this point I was pretty ticked off. My last best guess was that the extractor looked like it was clocked slightly. When I inserted the Weigand 9mm gauge, I could feel initial tension as I inserted it and then it would drop off rapidly as I inserted the gauge the rest of the way (it centers over the firing pin hole). Rather than do a new firing pin stop plate, I decided to stop chasing best guesses mainly because I was blowing time I did not have to spend. The pistol was under warranty so feeling both stupid and defeated, I finally got an RMA to send the pistol back.

No, I’m Not Incredibly Patient

In the meantime, I bought a 56645 Pro Ultra Match HC and it has worked great – no problems at all. I was able to work out the details on the mags. Now, I am not patient so I actually ordered a second 51679 Tac Ultra that I looked at, cycled a few rounds through but really didn’t use a great deal – my primary go-to test platform was the 56862 … until I decided to take some photos about the RIA 9mm A2 HC pistols and looked at the 51679’s extractor.

The second 51679 is at the top and the 56862 Tac Ultra Match is at the bottom. The Match pistol has nice checkering on the front of the grip, the top of the exposed barrel is a grey matte finish and has a target rear sight.

“You’ve got to be kidding me” – I thought to myself. Inserting a choice F bomb of course. The extractor in the brand new 51679 that probably has less than 100 hand cycled Zoom snap caps through it was almost completely broken off other than a little tiny nub on one end. WTF?!?!

I was happily taking photos for a blog post when I saw the silver grain of the busted extractor. Yeah, I was swearing up a storm. Really?

Okay, two 51679s bought from different vendors off Gunbroker about a month apart both having extraction problems …. wow. I’ll be honest – I’m disappointed. RIA 1911s are econobox models but they usually work – so, no, I’m not remotely happy not to mention jumping through hoops waiting for ever for their customer service to respond. I did learn a bunch though and will share with you what I did and what you can do if you want to.

Metal Injection Molding For Extractors Isn’t The Best Choice

The problem is that to keep costs down, Armscor, who owns the Rock Island brand, make the ejector using Metal Injection Molding (MIM). If you search on the web, you will see a ton of guys arguing against the use of MIM in high stress parts. As I just learned with extractors, it’s not the strongest manufacturing approach – making them from forged high-quality steel is a far better idea.

I removed the extractor from the pistol and zoomed in as best I could to get you this photo. You can see the grainy structure that is a signature of metal injection molding. That nub at the top right edge in the photo was just enough to yank the case out of the chamber … sometimes.

Okay, if you get a new RIA 9mm pistol, check the extractor out of the box. Clean and lube it, go to the range and keep your eye on the extractor. If it breaks you have two options – send it back to Rock Island/Armscor for a RMA repair or do it yourself. Heck, you could even just replace the extractor yourself before you have a problem if you want to.

I Decided To Replace the Extractor Myself

I learned a ton on that first pistol plus I had all of the tools and spare Wilson Combat extractors. I just needed to trust in my abilities a bit more and try it again. If there’s one thing I know about myself, it’s that I am persistent and don’t give up easy. With this in mind, I dove back in again with far better results.

The top is the failed Rock Island 9mm ejector and it is a series 70 design. The lower extractor is a state of the art forged 9mm extractor from Wilson Combat. It is a series 80 design but will work just fine in a series 70 pistol.

First, let me explain why I went with a Wilson “Bullet Proof” .38/9mm extractor. They have an excellent reputation a number of guys posted about throwing away their RIA ejector and installing a Wilson. Instead of being MIM, here’s what Wilson says about their extractors:

Fully Machined from S7 shockproof tool steel with a tensile strength of 275,000 PSI
Optimized hook design for maximum strength and case rim contact
Hook location tolerances held to +/- .001″
Radiused corners for extended life and smooth feeding
Enhanced design holds tension longer over factory part many times over
Heat treated to optimum hardness and cryogenically treated
Guaranteed for life against breakage or we will replace at no cost to you

Note: I went with a series 80 extractor because they were in stock even though the RIA pistols are based on a series 70 design. You can use a series 80 extractor in a series 70 pistol but not vice versa. You can get them from Brownells, Wilson directly and other places.

Recommended Tools

You don’t need specialized tools but if you can afford them, I would highly recommend the following:

Weigand’s extractor tension gauge set – let’s you precisely dial in extractor tension. Note, I did add a brass s-hook so I can grab it with a trigger pull gauge more easily.
Weigand’s 1911 extractor tensioning tool – let’s you precisely control the bending of your extractor
Brownells’ 1911 extractor removal tool – folks, this is so handy – get it.
Lyman – Mechanical Trigger Pull Gauge – even though I have some digital trigger pull gauges, I lacked a mechanical unit and there are times where it is handy to see an analog scale changing vs. flashing numbers you can’t read so I bought it regardless. Yes, if you have a trigger pull gauge already, you can use it.

The long angled tool is the 1911 Extractor Tool from Brownells and totally worth it in my opinion. The long angled end lets you reach into the slide and push extractor back and then down into the hole for removal. The other end is perfect sized for pushing down the firing pin to aid with the removal and installation of the firing pin stop. Note the blue A-Zoom snap cap – that is the color of their volume packs of rounds. Exact same material and tolerances – just a different color.

The silver block with the red handle is Weigand’s tool for adjusting extractor tension. The big orange thing is the Lyman mechanical trigger pull gauge. The brass plate is the gauge with a brass S-hook that I added. The gauge is sold as a set and each end is for a different caliber. The hole you see is actually for lining up on the firing pin hole – I just added the S-hook on the .38 end because I don’t have any plans to shoot .38 Super. Note, the small blade screw driver makes it real easy to nudge the firing pin up or down so the firing pin stop plate can be pushed into position.

Polish the Extractor

From what I read and saw, the Wilson extractor is practically ready out of the box other than setting the tension. Some guys recommended polishing the surfaces where the cartridge will come in contact and I did that with one of the small rubberized abrasive polishing bits in my Dremel.

How to Install

Make sure your pistol is unloaded – that the chamber is empty and a loaded magazine is not inserted. In short, work safe. Also, do not use live ammo for testing – use snap caps.

Let me give you an overview and then a couple of videos to watch:

Remove the slide
Remove the firing pin stop plate by pushing down with the straight short end of the extractor tool and then slide the plate off. Be CAREFUL that the firing pin and/or spring don’t come flying out as you remove the plate.
Push the extractor backwards by pushing the head of extractor backwards down the hole out the rear of the slide
Insert the new extractor and line it up so the stop plate can be re-inserted. It needs to line up with the top and bottom of the stop plate groove and it needs to be straight up and down parallel to the sides. You don’t need to install the firing pin and spring until you are done.
Insert the Weigand gauge and pull it out using the trigger pull gauge to find out how many ounces it takes.
Use the Weigand tensioning tool to increase or decrease the tension. I dialed mine in to 28 ounces (1.75 pounds).
You can try testing feeding and extracting dummy rounds to see how it performs. The extractor should maintain control until the extracted dummy round hits the ejector.
Once it is dialed in, you can then re-install the firing pin return spring, lube the firing pin and reinstall it also.
There’s a trick to the plate – wiggle it in and push down the firing pin enough to get the plate to sit on the “shelf” at the rear. You can then maintain pressure on the plate and use the other hand to use the extractor tool to push the firing pin down far enough and hold it there while you push the plate back into place.

More Details

Wilson has a video on how to change to their extractor and a bit about setting the tension:

Now, I also read the Brownell’s blog post about extractors plus a more detailed Wilson Combat instructional PDF file.

The following is a video of Jack Weigand explaining how to use his extractor gauges and tensioning tool:

Adjusting The Extractor Landing Pad

The most detailed post and guidance in general about extractors that I read is here – and if you read down, you will get to sections/replies about 9mm extractors. One thing you will notice discussed is reprofiling the “fitting pad” to better fit the radius of the extractor hole. I stoned and polished the fitting pad to be more rounded but that was it. I put more emphasis on getting a weight in the 25-28oz range and did do that after may 3-4 tries.

Pulling the gauge out the final time was about 1-3/4 pounds which is 28 oz. In testing the pistol, extraction was just fine.

Was The Match Pistol Higher End?

I wondered if maybe more care was put into the match pistol. There are some nice perks in terms of features but the trigger feels about the same between the two pistols. I’ll write up something more detailed down the road – for now let me just say they pistols are not night and day different in terms of how they feel with cycling the slide or pulling the trigger.

In terms of pricing, there’s not a huge difference on Gunbroker. The first 51679 was bought on 3/5/22 for $819.99, the Match pistol was $899.00 on 3/25/22 and the second 51679 was bought on 4/3/22 for $899.00 also. In writing this, it’s surprising that the Match wasn’t $100-200 more on the street but it wasn’t. If you look at the manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) – Armscor did set the 51679 at $899 and the Match 56645 at $1099. In other words, Armscor was hoping the Match would command a premium.

You can find the 51679 pistols right now with a bit of hunting. The 56645 match pistol is challenging to find as it seems to be a bit more rare now but it is out there too. I’d tell you to get the 56645 Pro Ultra Match HC if you can find it. As you can imagine, I’m not too thrilled with my 51679 experience right now and there is little to no price difference *if* you can find one.

Conclusion

I’m not sure what to tell you about what happened – I only have data from two 51679 pistols and one 56645 pistol. It could just be really bad luck – neither of my current 10mm pistols have given me any trouble and the 56645 Pro Ultra Match has been fine so far as well although I have only cycled maybe 500-600 snap caps through it so far.

The first 51679 had something going on that I can’t explain and am waiting on Armscor to fix it under warranty. It certainly was not a broken extractor. For the second one to have a snapped extractor claw with so very few rounds – I guess that highlights the limitation of MIM and that forged extractors are better – there’s a reason why Wilson’s Bullet Proof extractors have such a good reputation.

6/22/22 Update: RIA did a warranty repair after about 4-5 weeks. All they told me was that they confirmed the extraction problem, fixed it and the pistol was fully operational now. So, I still don’t know exactly what happened but at least Armscor/RIA stood behind it and made things right.

We’ll see what Armscor comes back with regarding the first pistol and I’ll report it here. I guess the big thing I want folks to know is that changing an extractor is not an arcane black magic endeavor. There are tons and tons of videos and posts that you can read. At some point you just need to wade in, give it a go and learn.

My other lesson learned is that don’t replace a busted Armscor extractor (MIM) with the same thing. Upgrade. I decided to go with Wilson Combat due to all the good reviews I read and would recommend that.

I still have a lot to learn about 1911s and don’t claim to know much. I’m really focused just on the mags but I hope this helps out anyone who reads it.

A Stunningly Good 1911 Reference Book Recommendation

By the way, If you want a really good book with tons of dimensions, drawings and photos, then get Jerry Kuhnhausen’s “The Colt .45 Automatic – A Shop Manual”. What I bought off Amazon is the “New Expanded 10th Edition” published in 2015. It gave me a better understanding about the extractor and the firing pin stop.

I hope this post helps you out!

6/29/23 Update: The match 9mm MIM extractor is still doing just fine and I have no idea how many thousands of times it has been cycled. The Wilson is doing great on the other pistol also.

12/17/22 Update: I’m somewhat surprised – the original MIM extractor in the Match 9mm is still doing just fine thousands of rounds later. So is the Wilson but I am not surprised about the Wilson holding up.

Establishing an Engineering Baseline: The M1911A1 Mil-Spec

A Quantifiable Tiering Model for the Modern 1911/2011

Tier Definitions

Core Evaluation Metrics

1. Materials Science & Manufacturing Processes

2. Quality Control & Assembly

3. Provenance & Performance

4. Market & Community Consensus

Tier-by-Tier Brand Analysis

S-Tier: Bespoke / Professional Grade

A-Tier: Semi-Custom / Duty Grade

B-Tier: High-End Production

C-Tier: Enthusiast Grade

D-Tier: Entry-Level

Detailed Brand Data and Justification

S-Tier Brands

A-Tier Brands

Quantitative Scoring Summary Table

Summary & Market Outlook

Consolidated Tier Ranking Table

Concluding Analysis & Market Trends

Appendix: Data Collection and Scoring Methodology

Data Sources

Scoring Rubric

Tier Assignment by Total Score

Works cited

Share this:

Like this:

The new panels for the Big Rock arrived

Fitting them to the Big Rock

Summary

Share this:

Like this:

Opening the Factory Box

How about the barrel?

Field Stripping the Pistol

Getting a jump on breaking in the pistol

Last comment on the FLGR and reassembling it

Summary

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this:

Ok, but are the 9mm HC 17 round pistols “good”?

Conclusion

Share this:

Like this:

What about feed lip length?

What happens if the front feed lip gap is too wide? You tend to get a Failure to Eject (FTE) or the Slide locks open prematurely

What happens if the front feed lip gap is too narrow? You tend to get a failure to feed (FTF)

Yeah, the lips have a memory

What about left and right bends to the feed lips?

What about the follower?

How about the spring?

What about lubricant?

Number your magazines

I’m still learning

Share this:

Like this:

The Initial Magazine Prototyping Didn’t Make Sense

Testing The First Pistol

No, I’m Not Incredibly Patient

Metal Injection Molding For Extractors Isn’t The Best Choice

I Decided To Replace the Extractor Myself

Recommended Tools

Polish the Extractor

How to Install

More Details

Adjusting The Extractor Landing Pad

Was The Match Pistol Higher End?

Conclusion

A Stunningly Good 1911 Reference Book Recommendation

Share this:

Like this:

When Strength and Quality Matter Most