I hate bad triggers and the worst triggers I have ever used were on HK MP5 and MP5K weapons. I have no idea of the design intent – maybe a real strong emphasis on avoiding an accidental discharge by having a long spongy pull and then a break somewhere around eight pounds. For someone who likes crisp triggers and a lighter pull, the HK triggers in general can be a rude awakening.
I recently picked up Zenith Firearms ZF5-P, which is a MP5K clone. Zenith Firearms is based in Afton, VA, and make their various rifles and pistols there. They used to import MKE clones from Turkey but severed ties and are actually making them here in the US.
I bought the ZF5-P for a few reasons – First, I got a good deal on it. That always helps. Second, I no longer had any form of an MP5 and kind of wanted to get back in. Third, and the subject of this story, I knew Timney made a well-regarded trigger pack for the MP5/MP5K. Fourth, I had an urge to tinker and needed a test platform.
Now Zenith makes a big deal that they machine their cartridge walls vs. bending sheet metal resulting in a better trigger. I was kind of curious to check that out as well.
For the rest of the article, I’ll just refer to the trigger as an MP5 trigger because the MP5 and MP5K share the same trigger pack. It’s the grip that differs.
The Zenith’s Original Trigger
Well, I was hoping for a good trigger out of the box because of Zenith machining the walls of their trigger pack but to be honest, it was just another MP5 trigger. I bought a new Century MKE AP5-P and its trigger was better than the Zenith’s also. It’s not that the Zenith’s trigger is bad – my point is that the unit I received was no better than any other MP5 trigger I’ve used.
I used a Wheeler “Professional Digital Trigger Pull Gauge” and did 10 pulls of the trigger after lubrication plus I had pulled the trigger maybe two dozen times since I bought it so there was a tad bit of wear in before testing. At any rate, the lightest pull was 7 pounds 5.9oz. The heaviest was 7 pounds 13.5 ounces and the average came in at 7 pounds 11.3 ounces. So, just shy of 7.75 or seven and three quarter pounds. Still long, creepy, spongy … pick the bad discriptor you like.
The Timney MP5 2-Stage Trigger
It’s nicely machined and ready to go. You just need to move the ejector, ejector axle and ejector spring from your old trigger to this one. It’s easy to do.
These triggers are compatible with SEF/ Semi-Auto trigger packs and their style of safety selector levers.
These triggers are NOT compatible with Ambi/Navy/FBI trigger packs or .22 clones, as they are different internally.
Timney provides clear installation instructions in the package plus they have the following video to help with the install.
Folks, that trigger is amazing. Here are pull test results: Minimum pull weight was 3 pounds 2.7 oz. Maximum was 4 pounds 0.1 ounce. The average was 3 pounds 10.3 oz.
I’d call it crisp and clean. Night and day better than the original Zenith trigger.
Range Time
My brother-in-law, nephew and I took the Zenith ZF5-P and a Century MKE AP5-P to the range. For an MP5, the MKE’s trigger is fairly decent but was seriously beaten by the Timney.
My nephew really liked the Timney trigger – we all did. By the way, one thing I really like is that a B&T low profile optics mount enables you to cowitness a Vortex Crossfire red dot with the iron sights.
Summary
I have never hid my dislike of MP5 triggers – I genuinely don’t like them and the only good things I can say are that they are reliable and you’ll probably never have an accidental discharge.
The Timney trigger ranks as one of the best upgrades I have done to a firearm. If you want a better trigger for your MP5/MP5K, or a clone of them, then get the Timney trigger.
Note, I have to buy all of my parts – nothing here was paid for by sponsors, etc. I do make a small amount if you click on an ad and buy something but that is it. You’re getting my real opinion on stuff.
If you find this post useful, please share the link on Facebook, with your friends, etc. Your support is much appreciated and if you have any feedback, please email me at in**@ro*********.com. Please note that for links to other websites, I may be paid via an affiliate program such as Avantlink, Impact, Amazon and eBay.
Back in August 2021, I bought a Tavor X95 and everybody told me to switch the stock trigger cartridge. I did some research and at that time people were recommending Timney or Geissele. My first choice was honestly Geissele because I really like their AR triggers but I couldn’t find them. Timney was the same way so I ordered both – I ordered the Timney on 8/17/21 direct from them and they shipped on 10/6/21. I also backordered a Geissele Super Sabra 05-267 with the thought that I could write a blog post at some point and compare them. The Timney arrived first and that’s what I installed and used up until yesterday. Let me explain.
I took my daughter’s fiancé, Kris, visiting from out of town to our local Berrien County Sportsman’s Club range for a few hours of shooting. The Timney trigger pack was in the Tavor and has been since I bought the Tavor. It has maybe 300-400 rounds through it – I’ve not shot it since I posted about taking it to the range last fall and the great time we had. At any rate, we shot a number of pistols and then it was rifle time – I told Kris that the Tavor is my favorite rifle right now and we start shooting.
I shot about 5 rounds to show the controls and make sure everything was good. I then handed it to Kris who then shot a few rounds and then things got weird. He pulled the trigger and nothing happened. I took the Tavor from him, and explained how to safely handle misfires and ejected the round. There was a barely noticeable dent on the primer. “Huh” I thought – must be a flaky hard primer. I loaded it again and tried – same thing. I took the round to the range’s misfire tube and dropped it down the pipe.
This is Kris wondering why it didn’t just fire.
I cycled the Tavor empty, it seemed okay, I then inserted a mag and made sure it was fully seated, handed the X95 to Kris who then charged it, we made sure the bolt was all the way home and he pulled the trigger. Nothing. Okay … something weird was happening. I took the X95 and ejected the round – same thing – a very light dent on the primer. At this point I was beginning to suspect something was wrong with the Tavor – we were shooting Winchester bulk M855 that normally I don’t have any problems with and absolutely never twice in a row.
I had Kris try again and this time I heard something. He would pull the trigger and nothing would happen but when he released trigger there was a delay followed by a click and then if he tried again it would fire. Okay …. something funky was going on inside the Tavor.
I removed all of the ammo and I could replicate it. Something was going on with either the rod that transfers the trigger pull back to the “trigger pack” or “sear mechanism assembly” – what IWI calls the trigger pack – or the trigger pack itself. It was time to pack the rifle up and we moved to an AR I brought that ran just fine.
Taking the X95 Apart
I have a love hate relationship with aftermarket parts. Most of the time when I take and replace a stock part with an aftermarket and something goes wrong, it’s the fault of the aftermarket part. To make a long story short, the problem at the range was caused by the Timney trigger pack.
On a Tavor, the trigger pack normally pulls out very easily once you pull out the two retaining pins. Not this time. It did NOT want to come out. I had to pull pretty forcefully to get it out and the culprit was a big silver dowel/axle pin located in the top front of the pack. Both it and a smaller one in the middle were way out towards the right side. Why? No idea. I tapped both the pins back in with a nylon head soft blow hammer in my Weaver gunsmith kit. I tried to get it to “fire” and it wouldn’t so I switched gears and installed the Geissele Super Sabra instead that was still new in the box.
Both of these pins were sticking out on this side. I already tapped them back in before I took this photo.
I lubricated the Super Sabra per their instructions and it dropped right in and worked. So, right now I have an inoperable Timney that I can’t get to do anything on the bench that I think I will try and have Timney do a warranty repair on – I’m kind of curious what they will do or not do. In the mean time, I will happily run the Super Sabra.
The Geissele Super Sabra on the left and the Timney Tavor trigger pack on the right. Note how the Super Sabra is using screws vs. pins.Here’s the other side of the trigger packs.I have always found Geissele’s engineering to be top notch. This trigger pack dropped right in and felt great. If I were to bet money, and I guess I already did since I bought it, this pack will last. The Super Sabra 05-267.
The Super Sabra feels really good – I am still using the stock Tavor trigger itself – the part you actually pull with your finger. Geissele sells a replacement trigger but I am not using it – just the replacement Super Sabra trigger pack.
For a bullpup trigger the Super Sabra is quite decent. There is a long pull but it breaks pretty nicely at 4 pounds 12 oz on average. To get that number, I did 10 test pulls with my Wheeler digital gauge. The lightest pull was 4 pounds 2oz and the heaviest was 5 pounds 1 oz. Very manageable and will be what I use going forward.
As I was writing this blog post, I had the Timney trigger pack in front of me. I tried repeatedly to actuate the hammer by pulling on the little lever that connects to the transfer rod in the rifle. Boy, it would not move – not one bit. I’d put a ball pin in the “U” and pull – it would not budge. I just tried again right now and heard a loud click just like we did at the range. I pulled on the lever again while controlling the hammer with my free hand and it “fired” – the hammer came up. In looking inside the cartridge i have no idea what has happened but don’t want to take it apart and void a warranty either. When I closed the hammer, it made a funny clunking abnormal sound and now doesn’t want to open/fire again. Weird. Something has gone wrong, that much I know.
I was able to eventually get it to open while I was writing the post. It made the same odd click sound that we heard at the range and after that it opened.When I closed it, an abnormal clunking sound came from the pack and it will not open again.
Summary
Not sure what happened but the Timney trigger pack stopped working. I plan on contacting Timney to see if they will look at it under warranty and will report back how it goes – I emailed them on 2/12/2023. I’m now running the Geissele Super Sabra pack and will see how that holds up.
I’m hoping Timney will do a warranty repair so I can compare both units down the road as I had originally hoped. I’ll update the blog post with how that turns out. By the way, I’ve had a number of Timney triggers over the years and this is the first problem I’ve had with one.
3/28/2023 Update: Got a nice update email from Timney. They are revising the design of the disconnector and will start production in June. That’s pretty cool that they are learning and improving their design. They offered me a refund or to wait for the new model and I opted for a refund at this point and they processed it (I bought it direct from them in this case). So, I am happy with the result.
3/25/23 Update: Really not happy with Timney customer service – I sent them polite emails asking for a status or even if they have the trigger (I can see they do from the tracking #) but they don’t even reply. Last email I told them I don’t mind waiting but please give me an idea of the lead time – no reply. I literally have no idea of the turn around time – they never gave me an estimate.
2/17/23 Update: Timney customer service was really easy to work with. They asked me to send them the trigger pack and they would take care of it. So, I sent it via priority mail with insurance on 2/16. I’m curious if they will tell me what went wrong.
Note, I have to buy all of my parts – nothing here was paid for by sponsors, etc. I do make a small amount if you click on an ad and buy something but that is it. You’re getting my real opinion on stuff.
If you find this post useful, please share the link on Facebook, with your friends, etc. Your support is much appreciated and if you have any feedback, please email me at in**@ro*********.com. Please note that for links to other websites, I may be paid via an affiliate program such as Avantlink, Impact, Amazon and eBay.
