Tag Archives: Rock Island Armory

1911

Why you need to clean, lube and break in Rock Island Armory Pistols

As some of you may know, we make custom magazines for the Armscor Rock Island Armory (RIA) A2 HC family of .40 and 10mm pistols. Once in a while I get to talk to a new owner before they go to the range and either they ask for advice or I give it regardlesss 🙂 I will tell anyone that will listen that they need to clean, lubricate and cycle their pistols 200 times before they go to the range. I’ve been sharing this advice for years but never really had evidence. Guess what? Now I do and I truly hope people will take this to heart and do it.

I recently purchased a RIA 52000 Big Rock – this is their 6″ barrelled 10mm match pistol. I had one years ago that I sold when I needed money and regretted it – especially after I started making the custom mags. What I am going to show you is true of all Rock Island 1911-style pistols – not just the A2 HC models – and for almost all semi-automatic factory-produced firearms. They are not ready to go out of the box and if you take them straight to the range they are going to fail a lot, you’re going to get frustrated, blame the gun/ammo/mag/dealer and it’s not their fault so please read the following and heed the advice.

Opening the Factory Box

For RIA 1911 pistols, they ship them in a bag absolutely coated in some kind of oil – just what I am not sure. Do not look at that and think it is all lubricated and ready to go. It absolutely is not and it is actually pretty dirty – you need to get rid of all of that including the junk in the bore.

STOP is right. What is in the bag is not ready to go.
First off, wipe it down. It will be drenched in oil to keep it from rusting. The 52000 Big Rock is definitely big.
This is what your white towel will look like. Note it is not just clean oil – there is debris in it and it’s not inteded to lubricate but to prevent rust. This stuff is everywhere in the pistol and we need to field strip the pistol, clean and oil it to ensure proper functioning.

Now you may be thinking your Glock was pristine compared to that and while it was cleaner it was also pretty dry and needed to be lubricated. The Rock Islands are decent but they need to be cleaned up.

How about the barrel?

The anti-corrosion “oil” and grime are everywhere in the pistol.

This is a real photo of an area of the bore before cleaning. It was captured with my Teslong borescope. The brass or copper color is probably from the test firing they did but the main thing for you to see is all of the preservative and grime in there, You do not want to shoot with this junk in there as it could adversely affect the pistol in any number of ways including affecting accuracy, By the way, the Teslong Rigid Rifle Borescope with 1080P resolution is pretty remarkable. I really like mine – it’s many times better than anything I have experimented with that I could afford.
I have used Ramrodz for years – the giant Q-tips on the right – to clean pistols. I just started trying the Clenzoil Bore Stix (on the left) and they seem to be decent with the advantage of having a cleaner/lubricant on them already. The Ramrodz being unprepared let me decide what I want to coat them with given the situation at hand so pros and cons with both. BTW- the sticks can snap easily so you hold them close up by the “bulb” when you insert them and then run the back and forth with the stick.
Here’s what the first Ramrodz looked like after I ran it up and down the bore a few times. It was coated with Kroil penetrating oil to help break things free. You can see the grime that came out.
I then decided to try a Bore Stix with just its normal coating.
The Clenzoil BoreStix seemed to remove even more grime than the Ramrodz but it is hard to say because the Kroil was in there working as I switched from the RamRodz to the Bore Stix.
This is after cleaning and lubricating. Again, the Teslong borescope is a game changer for me in terms of actually seeing the bore in considerable detail.

What I want you to take away from this section is to clean the bore – you can absolutely use your favorite method – patches, boresnake, whatever – but definitely clean it.

Field Stripping the Pistol

Armscor includes a half-way decent manual about how to field-strip your 1911 and I recommend you read it. Some of their models have barrel bushings and they have at least two models of full length guide rods that I know of. You just need to break the pistol down into its major groups – do not start taking apart the frame unless you seriously know what you are doing or you are going to get a hard lesson in how a 1911 goes together internally and it is not simple enough for the average shooter in my honest opinion. If you are a person that assembles 1911s from the bare frame – go ahead and do it. Have fun. If you have never disassembled and reassembled a 1911 – don’t. You don’t have to at this point is the bottom line.

One unique thing about the Big Rock you need to know is the unique full length guide rod (FLGR) they used and as far as I know, it is not in any other RIA pistol. If you have one of the 10mms, you are aware of the FLGR design which uses a pin to capture the two halves of the FLGR from separating, The Big Rock’s FLGR is threaded. To remove it, you turn counter-clockwise quite a few turns to unscrew the two halves and separate them. Now pay attention – that is a 20 pound spring in there and it will launch one half or the other so capture or retain the assembly by securing it with your other hand to prevent you from digging around for a launched part.

That slotted part is the FLGR and it is removed by turning it counter clockwise. I was taking pictures here – remove it with the slide closed so there is less tension on the spring. Notice the dent in the outer edge of the barrek at about the 5 o-clock position. The crown was fine and that’s what really matters. I’m not going to bother sending it back.

I’m not going to write a comprehensive guide to lubricating a 1911, read your pistol’s manual. I will tell you I now use ALG’s Go-Juice which is a thin grease on anything that slides. Before the ALG, I used Super Lube Synthetic Grease applied with an acid brush and before that I used wheel bearing grease. I would at least recommend doing this while the weapon breaks in. If you want to go to an oil later after it has worn in, then do it by all means. Right now though, you need the extra lubrication the grease brings. If surfaces slide together, use grease.

If they turn, use oil. I am all over the place trying oils. Right now, I am using ALG’s biosynthetic stuff. Don’t ask me what is in it. Before that I have used a ton of different oils – MGW, Super Lube, Mobil 1, etc., etc., etc.

Getting a jump on breaking in the pistol

You will hear guys call it “breaking in”, “wearing in”, “letting the parts get to know each other” – they all refer to any firearm needing to smooth out parts through their normal cycling. Expensive guns, such as customs and semi-customs, an experienced gunsmith used huning stones, rubberize abrasive bits or whatever was their preffered tool, to get rid of the tooling marks and sharp edges to give you a smooth weapon right out of the box.

Well, RIA is not expensive and they don’t spend a ton of time fitting and tuning their parts for a perfect fit. You know what? I’m fine with that – it’s easy to smooth things out but first I want to show you why you need to do this via some digital photos courtesy of an Andonstar AD246S-M digital microscope.

The following are example photos showing the tooling marks on various areas that need to slide freely. The tooling marks are everywhere and cause friction until the places where surfaces contact start to wear down the protruding areas:

Bottom of slide
Sample of tooling marks on slide rail area
Tooling marks on the receiver’s slide area.
Front of the left side of the receiver – the shiny areas are already making contact with the slide and wearing in.

Again, the above are all examples. Areas starting to shine are wearing in and starting to smooth out. I’d maybe cycled the slide a dozes or so times before the above photos were taken as I wanted to show before.

Now, there are tons of things you could do with honing storines, rubberized abrasive bits and even with lapping stones. If you want to do one or more of those, go for it. I have an even simpler solution – rack the slide open and closed a couple hundred times. Literally, don’t have a mag in it and work it back and forth over and over. It’s a workout with that 20# spring but it will accelerate wear-in dramatically. Think about it, a lot of firearms get more reliable just under a 100 rounds. You are really smoothing things out at 200, What you will notice is that if you do the above, you will not waste a lot of time and money dealing with jams.

How do I know this? I have owned a number of RIA pistols over the years. My test pistols that I use to test each mag before they leave have been handcycled thousands of times and the slide feels like that of a high-end pistol – like it is sliding on glass.

The following photos show contact areas after thousands of cycles:

Shiny areas neans the parts wore together and smoothed out.
In this area the tooling marks are all but gone.
Again, lots of wear – only the deepest tooling marks are still there.
The bottom of the slide is worn smooth.

Guys are always surprised how smooth these pistols are and then even more surprised when I tell them they are unmodified RIA pistols that have had their slides cycled thousands of times.

So, do you need thousands of times? No, just go for 200 and you can do more if you really want to.

Last comment on the FLGR and reassembling it

I seriously started hating on the unique Big Rock FLGR design when it came time to put it back together. You are fighting a 20# spring and I couldn’t remember how I did my last one years ago or find any tips or tricks about how to do it. The best thing I can tell you is that you need to secure the back half against the barrel link with the left hand. Insert the front section with the right and try to get front threaded insert into the hood of the back, try to hold them in approximate alignment as you try to screw the front half back in. Translation – it sucks and I have no tips.

I haven’t gotten this frustrated iin a while. The FLGR assembly is those three parts – the 20# spring and the two sliver rods. The one saving grace, the only saving grace for that matter, is the design of how they come together. The two shafts need to line up with the front long part with the slot sliding into the short stubby back part hat has a hooded opening.
This photo was mere seconds before I launched the back half six feet away where it luckily hit a wall and dropped in plain sight because I wasn’t keeping it secure enough with my left hand. Note, I still have a 1911 recoil spring plug somewhere that launched in my shop and was never found.
This is just to prove it is possible to get them back together. Note the purple ALG thin grease on the slide.

Summary

I hope this post helps impress on you the need to clean, lubricate and cycle your pistol, or whatever firearm, before you go to the range the first time. I do this myself and have shared it with many, many folks over the years and the feedback has always been positive.

By the way, the majority of guys who contact me hating on the RIA pistols did not break them in so I walk them through this. The second largest majority are really frustrated with the OEM magazine.

If you need mags for your 10mm or .40 RIA pistol (notably models 52009, 52682 or 52000 – also called the “A2” or “HC” series pistols (the big staggered 15-16 round models), please think of us. Our mags are far, far better than the OEM mags that come with the pistols – better springs, longer, antifriction coating and more.

If you find this post useful, please share the link on Facebook, with your friends, etc. Your support is much appreciated and if you have any feedback, please email me at in**@ro*********.com . Please note that for links to other websites, I may be paid via an affiliate program such as Avantlink, Impact, Amazon and eBay.

1911

Adjusting the the feed lip gap on our 3rd Generation RIA 10mm and .40 S&W Magazines

As you may know, we offer a third generation staggered 16 round magazine for Rock Island Armory (RIA) pistols chambered in either 10mm for .40 S&W. Having the correct front feed lip gap is critical for reliable feeding and I want to update you on some changes.

S&B 180gr FMJ round. The black “flaps” over the back of the cartride are known as the “feed lips”. They serve to limit how far the cartridge sticks up, the vertical angle as well as the left-to-right angle. On our magazines, it is the front of the lips, or right right edge of the lips in this photo, that are key for proper positioning of the round.

When I first started the magazines, I was setting the front edge of the feed lips between 0.36 and 0.375. In talking with customers who have bought the mags and were having feeding problems (notably stovepiping) , when the magazine lips were down at the lower end of 0.360″. I’d walk them through setting the gap for their pistol and at the end, I would have them measure the final front lip gap that worked. It was usually between 0.370 and 0.390″ and averaged 0.380″.

June 2024: The nominal front feed lip gap is 0.375 +/- 0.002. 0.380 seems to be the average maximum but the best average gap is that 0.373-0.377 range. Your pistol might vary so look at how the bullet points towards the chamber – either straight in or just slightly below. Some tinkering will help you figure out what is best for your pistol and the types of ammo you are shooting.
Here is a photo with labels.
There are a lot of different 10mm cartrdiges on the market. Look at the different bullet shapes – the different angles can all affect reliable feeding which is one of many reasons why you may find one pistol likes one ammo and can cycle it all day long but not another.

Adjusting the Feed Lips Isn’t Hard

I’d recommend the following tools for the adjustments:

  • 1/2-3/4 pound non-marring mallet – or even both. A lighter one for fine adjustments and a heavier one for coarse adjustments. It doesn’t take much to bend the lips. (May 2024 Update: I started using sheet metal hammers maybe a year and a half ago and find that they work great. The force of the strike bends the metal very nicely and doesn’t hurt the finish so while the photos all say use a non marring mallet – I would tell you to get some basic light sheet metal / body work hammers. Cheap ones break down quickly as the face of the hammer is weak so read reviews and get a good one. You just need a decent flat face and not a lot of weight – look at Martin, Fairmount, Performance Tool, etc.)
  • A pair of snap ring or malleable chandalier pliers that can spread the lips open. I highly recommend the Westinghouse 70099 pliers specifically because they have nice wide jaws that really help you make solid contact with the lips. Other brands have narrower jaws, probably to lower costs, that work but want to roll over on you while you are adjusting.
  • A pair of straight plastic jawed pliers come in hand if you need to tweak the lips left or right. I like the Beadsmith Parallel Pliers with nylon jaws for this work.
  • A vise with non-marring jaws or some means to hold the mag without crushing or excessive scratching
  • Digital calipers will help you with consistency and recording what gap your pistol works the best with give a particular type of ammo. Amazon has a ton of 6″ calipers so look at the reviews and decide. I use Mitutoyo 500-196-30 calipers but I need that level of precision and robustness due to constant use.
  • Use Zoom Snap Caps to test cycling vs live ammo. In general, snap caps or action proving rounds are a good idea to avoid misfires. There’s also a second reason – the recoil springs in the RIA pistols are robust and if the bullet from a live round or dummy round (a bullet loaded into a case that does not have powder or a primer) smacks hard into something, it will get pushed back further and further into the case plus they deform easily. All of my testing is done with solid aluminum snap caps now. I use A-Zoom 10mm Snap Caps for both my 10mm and .40 S&W mags. I’ve had positive feedback from owners of .40 S&W pistols so I know they work for both. Note I do NOT use A-Zoom snap caps for 9mm as the bullet shape does not remotely reflect common 115gr FMJ ammo at all.
From left to right bottom row: Vaughan 3/4 pound NT-125 mallet, Vaughan 1/2 pound NT-100 mallet and Westinghouse 7009900 lighting fixture chain pliers. The Vaughan mallets hold up great – the plastic is both pretty solid and robust so tapping in the feed lips goes very smoothly.
The Westinghouse pliers make opening the feed lips wider a very easy job. You could also use snap ring pliers but they will not distribute the pressure the same or be as easy to use.
The Westinghouse pliers have wide jaws – meaning left to right in the photo above. I’ve bought a number of chain pliers and the cheaper ones do not have as wide of jaws and have a tendency to want to roll when you are applying pressure. They work – but take a bit more control on your part.

Procedure to follow

Ensure your pistol is unloaded and no ammo is immediately nearby that might get accidentally loaded during testing.

Okay, let’s walk through the steps:

Checking Cartridge Alignment

  1. Lock the slide open
  2. Put a snap cap in the magazine
  3. Insert the magazine into the pistol
  4. From different angles, look at where the catridge is pointing in the chamber. Imagine a line from the center of the bullet going straight forward – where is it hitting? You will want to make small adjustments and test over and over until you get that bullet pointing into the center of the chamber (no, it does not need to be perfect).
The front edge of the feed lips are adjusted such that the cartridge is aiming into the middle of the chamber vertically and horiztontally.

Adjusting The Vertical Angle

On most mags, including our’s, the angle the bullet sits at is adjusted by changing the gap of the front mag lips. The back can’t be adjusted because it will buckle or crack given the right angle bend to the back. What happens is that by opening the front of the mag lips, the front of cartridge sits higher (meaning it is a steeper angle). Correspondingly, by narrowing the front of the mag lips, the cartridge can’t rise up as far and the bullet sits lower.

The circle representing a cartridge is the same size in both figures. By making the gap wider on the right, the circle rises up higher before it contacts the black feed lips.

The angle is often the biggest problem. If the bullet isn’t angled enough, it gets stripped from the magazine by the slide and will either slam straight into the feed ramp and stop or it will hit, shoot up at a 45 degree angle jamming the pistol open – this is known as “stovepiping”. In both of these cases, you would want to open the lips up until there is proper feeding.

There is such a thing as the lips being too wide and hitting the top of the chamber or literally falling out. The feed lips need to be narrower than the case diameter of 0.421″ for sure otherwise the case will literally fall right through the lips.

I set the lips at 0.375 +/- 0.002 and you will need to see what works best for your pistol and the type(s) of ammo you are shooting. You may find you need a couple of mags at one gap for the type of HP ammo you are shooting and a couple of mags for FMJ. Personally, my pistols run all of my S&B, Buffalo Bore and Underwood ammo with that 0.373-0.377 range.

To open the front of the lips, use the chain pliers shown above on the front of the feed lips. It doesn’t take much pressure to open (or close) the feed lips so you will need to get the “feel” for how much to squeeze.

To close the front of the lips, tap the left feed lip in and then the right feed lip in equal amounts using the mallet. If you aren’t careful then you are liable to have the bullet pointing too far left or right even though the gap is the same.

Note, it doesn’t take much force with the mallet to move the lips. If you go crazy and crush the lips such that the gap dips below 0.33″, you may find that the throat of the magazine bent and the follower will not longer be able to pass. You don’t want this to happen so make small adjustments, measure and test over and over.

Adjusting the Horizontal Angle

You have a few ways to adjust the left to right horizontal angle. The first is to tap the lips in the direction you need. You can hit in the outside edge of the lip to close it or the right side to open it. I don’t use this because I find it takes too long.

I like to use parallel plastic jawed pliers that fit right inside the lip and let me easily adjust the angle with a good deal of control.

Here’s another look at the lips without a cartridge present.
Here’s a magazine with a 180 grain FMJ round by S&B loaded.

It really helps to number your magazines so you can keep track of feed lip gaps, which ones are having problems, etc.

Summary

Each pistol can vary slightly so each magazine may need different feed lip gaps. Going forward, the feed lip gap on our 10mm and .40 S&W magazines will vary between 0.370 and 0.380″. This gives you a starting point but you may find a bit of final tweaking of the feed lips beneficial.

If you are reading this and are not using our magazines, your feed lip gap may differ.

I hope this helps you out.


3/24/2024 Update: We make 10, 15 and 16 round magazines for Rock Island A2 HC 10mm & .40 S&W.
Please click here for the product listings.

Note, I have to buy all of my parts – nothing here was paid for by sponsors, etc. I do make a small amount if you click on an ad and buy something but that is it. You’re getting my real opinion on stuff.

If you find this post useful, please share the link on Facebook, with your friends, etc. Your support is much appreciated and if you have any feedback, please email me at in**@ro*********.com . Please note that for links to other websites, I may be paid via an affiliate program such as Avantlink, Impact, Amazon and eBay.